Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

[Ded10c]

That just about sums up the essential problem really. Your looking for rationality in something that is essentially not rational to our planet bound evolutionary sensorium. Shrugs.

You realise that telling me your point of view is unreasonable while still maintaining it is practically the same as admitting that you are insane?

[bigbadbogie]

I don't think that there is a difference there at all. You can't not believe in something which you consider true, therefore you must by default consider it untrue, hence disbelieve it.

That's the logical fallacy of False Implication, to the letter.

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The fallacy of false implication occurs when a statement, which may be clear and even true, implies that something else is true or false when it isn't.

Are you disputing that if somebody thinks that something is untrue, they disbelieve it? Those two things have an identical meaning.

Or are you disputing that if somebody does not think that something is true, they think that it is untrue?

Even Atheists believing in something. Or more specifically, they believe that there is not something. It's still a belief, as no proof exists either way. There is no reverse implication.

Atheists don't 'believe'. They do the exact opposite. It is anti-belief. It is a perspective which is entirely unique to Atheism. No comparison can be made with a belief.

There is a distinctive difference between not believing anything (at all) and believing anything (at all).

It is the same as the difference between True/False and 1/2.

Believing anything (at all) or not believing anything (at all) = True or False (unequal).
Once you believe in something (at all), you are believing one of a number of equal possibilities such as = 1 or 2 or 3 or 4.

Atheists don't believe that there is no god, they just don't believe that there is. There is a difference.

[MrTwosheds]

Sir, you are quite wrong.

Ok... I speak as a UK person. Most people I know are atheist, just by default, it isn't political in any way, I know nobody who is actively or overtly atheist in the political sense, there simply isn't the need for it here. I guess the situation may be very different in the US where the religion is still a powerful force and opposition is required. In the UK a church is mostly somewhere you go to get out of the rain and be alone... Seriously, in recent years the Vicars usually have 3 Churches (buildings) each to look after just because they have neither the people to man them or a flock to serve.
People like Dawkins don't really matter here. He isn't controversial or interesting.

[Nielk1]

I;m the programmer BBB, why are you the one showing binary thinking?

[bigbadbogie]

I;m the programmer BBB, why are you the one showing binary thinking?

Why are you not?

My 'binary thinking' is limited to whether something is existent/non-existent or true/false. As it is impossible for a third option to exist in either of those binary opposites, binary thinking is justified, the default being non-existent or false until proven otherwise with tangible evidence.

[Ded10c]

People like Dawkins don't really matter here. He isn't controversial or interesting.

As the leading proponent of antitheism, I'd say he probably does.

[MrTwosheds]

I'm only buying a ticket if he goes up against the Buddhists.

[TwinShadow]

Ok... I speak as a UK person. Most people I know are atheist, just by default, it isn't political in any way, I know nobody who is actively or overtly atheist in the political sense, there simply isn't the need for it here. I guess the situation may be very different in the US where the religion is still a powerful force and opposition is required.

Can't tell you how correct this is. The "atheists" here in the states are trying to push religion out, vigorously... Quite sad to be honest. I don't care about religion so long as it isn't pushed on me, or as long as someone doesn't preach it in my face for 8 hours straight. One thing you can look up is "Freedom From Religion Foundation" or something similar, they're about as nasty as they get.

/2cents

[MrTwosheds]

Well we have all been watching the Religions pushing their agenda's quite aggressively for some years now. I am not surprised to see organized "resistance" They have a right to their beliefs too. It's important to maintain the separation of church and state if you want to remain a democracy too.

[Ded10c]

It's important to maintain the separation of church and state if you want to remain a democracy too.

You are resident in a country that is both Christian and democratic. The same is true of at least eight other countries in Europe - the oldest democracies in the world.

As a whole it took us hundreds of years to transition from monarchies to democracy - a process that was painfully long and incredibly violent. I do rather hope the transition from democracy to the next stage is a less so.

[Red Spot]

Well we have all been watching the Religions pushing their agenda's quite aggressively for some years now. I am not surprised to see organized "resistance" They have a right to their beliefs too. It's important to maintain the separation of church and state if you want to remain a democracy too.

Will never happen as long as religions exist. In my country the law says very clearly that politics and religion are not allowed to be mixed, yet we have political parties named as 'Christian Democrates', etc.
Next, even if in the open people do not apply their religion when in a political position of power, that does not mean that their opinion hasnt already been influenced in the first place and so they will always take their religion with them. Quite understandable, but it doesnt make it any better.

[MrTwosheds]

What's the next stage? Bankers buyout of the EU?
Were only a Christian country historically, I would guess that practicing Christians are now out numbered by adherents of other faiths. They certainly are in our Capital city.

[Ded10c]

What's the next stage? Bankers buyout of the EU?
Were only a Christian country historically, I would guess that practicing Christians are now out numbered by adherents of other faiths. They certainly are in our Capital city.

I looked into this myself only a few weeks ago and no, that's not the case. The Christians in this country outnumber the adherents of every other faith put together.[source]

Christianity has too much impact on politics for the statement that we are a Christian country in history alone to be true. Do remember that the clergy have a significant presence in the House of Lords, and that the Queen is also the head of the Church of England.

[MrTwosheds]

Hmmm 59%, that's why I said practicing Christians... I only guessed by using the people I know as a rough sample. My Mum sings in a church choir...she's an Atheist. What people say and what they do ain't the same thing.