A Guntower Issue

[Ded10c]

Huh, yeah, I seem to remember you saying something like that at the time. You seem largely resistant to dodgy modding, must be like a natural resistance.

[Vadam]

Examine the models. Bodgeman made them by pulling bits off of existing bz2 models and then "sticking" them back together (in Threed, not in a modeling program) to make "new" models that looked "bz2".
This is not a way to make good models, starfleet suffered from very poor framerates due to the engine having to work 10x overtime in the not drawing occluded surfaces department, any animated model will at some point have surfaces that need to not be drawn because they are inside the model. Many of Starfleets models have permanently occluded surfaces without even being animated. In short starfleets models make the bz2 engine do a lot of work just to make them look normal. This only becomes a problem when you have a lot of units in the world, Starfleet puts lots of units in the world.
You will not be able to fix this problem. By all means continue to work on it and learn from it, but understand that it always was a bodge up and it will still be a bodge up after you have finished with it.

The last guy to try fixing Starfleet hasn't been seen in several months.

Yes, I know my efforts are futile, broken beyond repair, horrible models, etc etc. I just want to try to fix as much as I can because its always been a fun mod for me. Also like I said this isn't just a Starfleet issue, it happens with the Shin'kluh guntower in ZE.

[MrTwosheds]

The issue with the gun towers is actually quite easy to fix, even in dodgy models, its just a question of getting the setup right for that specific design of turret. Weapon convergence makes the up/down turrets go left/right a little bit too, if the hp_eyepoint is mounted in the wrong place, it will never be able to aim properly while using 1.3 weapon convergence. That's why the use1.2aim stops it happening.
I am not trying to slag off starfleet or discourage you from modding, just telling you that you have probably picked The Most Difficult Mod to work on, It is only the models that are going cause you problems, You are probably going to have to work on them in notepad because Threed does not seem to have taken to newer operating systems very well and is now mostly dysfunctional, I do not recommend using its save function at all, unless you like watching your work regularly get turned into useless broken files...If you do need something better than notepad to work on its models, then I don't actually know what to recommend. There aren't very many that can even open xsi let alone save a working model for use in bz2.
Quite a few of us here started out modding just like you are now. The mud is even deeper now than it was back then.

[Vadam]

I do work on models in notepad already, except the only thing I know how to do is retexture things using xsi files. I've tried using threed before, but only as a viewer for xsi files because it could barely do anything otherwise. Just to clarify, are you saying I'll have to go into the tower's xsi file and re-arrange the eyepoint, or just check the "turretCount = 3" area of the odf?

[MrTwosheds]

The parts of a model
}
}
Are arranged in a Hierarchy
}
}
using curly brackets
}
}
}

I don't know exactly what you need to do, because I have not looked at the models. How you fix it will depend on the design of the model. But it sounds like you need to move the hp_eyepoint down off of the turret_x to the turret_y and add a "turretCount = 4" entry for the HP_eyepoint. so that it moves up and down independently of the other x turrets.

http://www.bzscrap.org/downloads/Utilities/BZ2/3De/ 3dexploration is a better viewer for xsi files, Personally I find version 1.5.50 to be the best...

[Ded10c]

You can examine the model hierarchy in a more visual way in 3Dex if you prefer that approach, just be aware that you can't edit it there.

[Vadam]

I added a turretCount entry for hp_eyepoint. I tried moving around the eyepoint in the xsi file. Usually when I move it the model breaks, when it doesn't break THIS happens..

[General BlackDragon]

The XSI file higherarchy can go two ways:

Option A:

Turret X {
----Turret Y {
--------hp_Eyepoint {
--------}
----}
}


Then, in the ODF, only specify 2 turret, turretx and turret y. (This is short hand, the y/x might be in opposite order, whatever.)


OR Option B:

Turret X {
----Turret Y {
----}
----hp_Eyepoint {
----}
}

If this is the higherarchy, adding hp_eyepoint as turretName3 would make it work.

Judging from the picture, it looks like Option A: is the one that the model is currently setup for.

[MrTwosheds]

Usually when I move it the model breaks,

The curly brackets define the hierarchy through out the whole model...
They extend the hierarchy out and back in again. So moving a frame can result in everything below it becoming wrong. A viewer such as threed or 3de may not pick up on this error. but bz2's mesh builder will. So you may need to add or subtract {} 's further down in the file, you need to count brackets out and cleanly back again to end the frame and the file cleanly.
This is particularly critical If an xsi has an animation at the end. Use 3de to test weather or not an animation works, if the animation slider does not appear at the bottom, the animation will not work.
Animations will only work if the hierarchy above it is ended correctly.

when it doesn't break THIS happens..

The weapon Hp has ended up being double turreted. Without seeing the files I cannot figure out why.
And cos Bodgeman made em in threed the chances are they were never completely correct in the first place Threed did not end the files correctly, that is just one reason why it often broke things.
At the end of the file you will probably find
}
}
}
You may need to add one or more } to this, Its quite difficult and annoying until you get used to it.