Custom model problem - XSI fail?

[K-Barter_CZ]

Hello again, ( ...sorry )

I got small problem about making custom model and returning it back to game. Model is made in Milkshape 1.8.4, exported to 3ds, 3Dexploration to XSI and in Treed (I think) reassembling based on original Sabre from 3Dexploration.

About the model: Modified Sabre tank with component from Rocket tank.

Let's say I've created model based on ISDF Sabre Tank which has in total 7 hardpoints:

hp_cannon1, 2
hp_gun1,2
hp_rocket1,2
hp_special

That are the basic weapon hardpoits, which I created in Milkshape. I left original points such as flames, eyepoin (eyepoint?) and hp_com, but I made them as small cubes.

Every time I load my custom ivtankhv-kb.odf file in editor, Editor crashes. I'm attaching logfile as well as 3DS file with XSI file which odf uses.

Rocket tank BMP:

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Sabre tank BMP:

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XSI file:

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Definition File:

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Logfile:

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I use Milkshape, cos I can't afford proffesional 3D modeling software. I know that's bad for me, and worse, I hande Milkshape well (.. <:-) ) But I have GMAX installed, but can't work with it.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Anyway

K-Barter

Edit: These data are no longer needed, so I removed them. Thank you for help!

[MrTwosheds]

I believe the version of .xsi exported by 3dex is the wrong one. Bz2 uses, xsi 0101txt 0032.
There are many versions of xsi as they keep changing it. (been along time since I tried, and failed to export xsi from 3dex)
I used to export .x format from 3dex and then convert that with x2xsi, it works but is not great, and you might get more vertex than you really need.
I assume you know that you can only define 5 HP's Max, in the Odf, having 7 in the model is ok though.

If you don't actually want to change the visual parts of the model, it is actually much easier to add hard points to an xsi using notepad2 rather than messing about converting things. Browse through a simple xsi and you should be able to see the structure, copy an existing hp section and paste it in, with the right amount of {}'s to get the hierarchy right.

[S.cavA.rmyG.en]

becous of the hard point problem here is a idea you can try just so you have some thing to test out ingame. first open the stock .xsi in note pad and rename the to hard points for the guns in to rockets then save it with a new name.
don't forget to change the odf.

[Red Devil]

i think there's a limit of 5 hardpoints.

[General BlackDragon]

there IS a limit of 5 hardpoints for weapons.

add an hp_eyepoint to it. I'd vote to remove the 2 guns, and wala. I think. *looks at XSI closer*

Also never save in threed, it botches up models.

Make modifications in notepad instead. Maybe even add some animation to it in notepad.

[MrTwosheds]

The limit of 5 hardpoints is only for ODF's you can put as many as you want in a model.
It does not have an Hp_eyepoint, It has to have one.

Saving models in threed does nasty things to models, they can work, but its best not to do it. Threed is useful as a viewer and excels at ruining models.

Your rockets would fire from underneath the tank, the Hp's mesh position is irrelevant it is its axis point that the weapon fires from.

Frame frm-hp_cannon1 {

FrameTransformMatrix {
1,0,0,0,
0,1,0,0,
0,0,1,0,
0,0,0,1;;
The last line of this Frame section (0,0,0,1;;) controls the position of the Hp, the first 3 0's are xyz, leave the last as 1.

[S.cavA.rmyG.en]

The limit of 5 hardpoints is only for ODF's you can put as many as you want in a model.
It does not have an Hp_eyepoint, It has to have one.

Saving models in threed does nasty things to models, they can work, but its best not to do it. Threed is useful as a viewer and excels at ruining models.

Your rockets would fire from underneath the tank, the Hp's mesh position is irrelevant it is its axis point that the weapon fires from.

Frame frm-hp_cannon1 {

FrameTransformMatrix {
1,0,0,0,
0,1,0,0,
0,0,1,0,
0,0,0,1;;
The last line of this Frame section (0,0,0,1;;) controls the position of the Hp, the first 3 0's are xyz, leave the last as 1.

use note pad to rename the hard points.
on a persional note I keep reading about threed problems
but I have never ben able to test the clames my self becouse my copy allways works.
even after gitting a new computer this year.

[MrTwosheds]

Its quite simple, apart from destroying animations, sometimes disappearing buildings entirely and crashing if it does not like certain materials, It alters the numerical format of the xsi.
Xsi uses values to strict 6 decimal places, eg 1.000000, threed seems to think its fine to alter this to 1 or sometimes 1e46 or some other nonsense. This may not cause obvious problems, but BZ2 is designed to use only the 1 format of xsi, who know what its mesh builder makes of these alterations. What is known is that mods featuring a significant number of threed models tend to perform very badly.

In addition to that, it is extremely feature poor, it cannot do normal smoothing and it cannot do multi-materials like xsi should be able to and it cannot edit the meshes, it is only useful for badly "sticking" bits of different models together to make things that look like they come from a bad dream about bz2. In short it encourages people to make very poor models, when they would probably rather be making good ones.
If you really want to modify existing bz2 models, 3dex can export an xsi to .3ds, then you can work on it properly in most modeling programs.

[K-Barter_CZ]

If you really want to modify existing bz2 models, 3dex can export an xsi to .3ds, then you can work on it properly in most modeling programs.

That's what I did - I've exported orignal Sabre model from XSI (D/Loaded XSI pack from bzscrap.org), loaded it in 3Dexploration, exported to Milkshape 3D (my ver is 1.8.4 I think), made modifications (doubled turrets with recoils, added Rocket tank recoil), then:

I got some ways how to do it, the first one worked but not as I expected:

Milkshape => Direct 3D export (direct from Milk), => convert with X2XSI to XSI
Milk => 3Ds format => 3D exploration convert to XSI => fail
Milk => 3Ds format => 3D exploration convert to X => fail
Milk => XSI format - but it will not save IDK why

What happened in 1st method:

Model converted sucessfully, but Textures became unmapped (bad mapping, had to vertically mirror textures), and weapon hardpoints with "focal point" of motors fired only from 1 place -

Your rockets would fire from underneath the tank, the Hp's mesh position is irrelevant it is its axis point that the weapon fires from.

- that looks to be the spot.

I'm still working on some methods, how to convert it - I tried Truespace (What the hell? UI looks crazy - sorry for this :-O ) Blender - (personally I like open source progs, but this program has crazy UI too), 3D Max (sorry, can't afford it, I'm not a prof, just an amateur modeler), GMAX (maybe I can use it, but UI still unfriendly, maybe use it as an exporter only).

That's all from me now.. thanks

[MrTwosheds]

Model converted sucessfully, but Textures became unmapped

Yes, youll need to flip the uv map in milkshape before you export and convert, the 3dsMax xsi exporter does this automatically, 3ds uses different rotation from xsi.
In an xsi the axis point is will always come out as xyz=000 after conversion so there is no point trying to setup Hp's in milkshape,
It really is easiest to copy/paste and position them in notepad after conversion, whatever program you use.

[Zax]

Model converted sucessfully, but Textures became unmapped

Yes, youll need to flip the uv map in milkshape before you export and convert, the 3dsMax xsi exporter does this automatically, 3ds uses different rotation from xsi.
In an xsi the axis point is will always come out as xyz=000 after conversion so there is no point trying to setup Hp's in milkshape,
It really is easiest to copy/paste and position them in notepad after conversion, whatever program you use.

Easiest, maybe, but once you get good in 3DS you will know which way everything will be rotated and adjust accordingly before exporting, which really takes a finished model and rotates it 90* along some axis. Hardpoints must always have the green arrow pointing toward the exact opposite of where the effect comes out, IE a cannon would have green arrow (y axis) towards back of ship, a Forge light would be up and back.

[Ded10c]

You *can* save in Three-D if you need to, but be careful when doing so and *never* overwrite the existing model. It has a remarkable ability to break things.

[MrTwosheds]

Easiest, maybe, but once you get good in 3DS you will know which way everything will be rotated and adjust accordingly before exporting, which really takes a finished model and rotates it 90* along some axis. Hardpoints must always have the green arrow pointing toward the exact opposite of where the effect comes out, IE a cannon would have green arrow (y axis) towards back of ship, a Forge light would be up and back.

When he converted the original xsi to 3ds the uv map was flipped, because he is not using a 3ds-xsi exporter, he needs to flip it back himself before converting it back again.
Rigging a model up in 3dsmax, so that it all works fine straight away as a bz2 model, seems to be a right pain in the butt, I just find it easier to re-position things like hp's and animated parts within the xsi itself, because its much simpler than going back and forth tweaking and re-exporting a model over and over again trying to get it looking right in bz2. I don't spend too much effort on materials in max either, as I usually already know the sort of xsi materials I want, and figuring out how to make that in max is like 10 time more complex than a simple cut n paste from another model.
Just think how much easier all this would be if those A-retentive folks at Softimage were enlightened enough to realise that some people really do want to use their OLD software!

[K-Barter_CZ]

Hello again,

I've succeded in making model with Milk and Threed, what I did?

I've just copied only the new parts I made, then "reassign" hardpoints (copied and so on, so BOTH cannons and rockets are working as I want)

But I have last problem with textures - textures are flipped. I have to create another texture, but custom texture doesnt support team coloring (I mean if I have for ex. blue team color, the parts are still in original color-texture).

How to make a "team color enabled texture"?

Thanks in advance!

K-Barter

[General BlackDragon]

team colors use BLABLABLAc0.pic files

Apha maps are a0.pic

normal textures are 00.pic.