A Guntower Issue

[Vadam]

Something I've finally gotten around to attempting to tackle is a huge issue with the guntowers. It's hard for me to describe, but I'll nail it to the best of my ability. Usually what happens is that the tower sees an incoming target and attempts to fire, the barrel of the guntower slowly starts shaking up and down until the weapon isn't even hitting the target, and the tower stops firing. I noticed that all the towers that have this problem fire a continuous beam-type weapon. I've tried replacing the weapon, but it didn't fix anything. This issue isn't just in Starfleet, I've seen it in ZE, with the Shin'Kluh guntower.

[MrTwosheds]

This sounds like an issue that might be caused by the guntower model and/or odf entries.
The position of hp_eyepoint in the models hierarchy is critical to its ability to aim correctly, it must be done in a specific way depending on the design of the guntower/turret.
Check out the guntower by getting in it as a pilot, if the view from there is doing odd things, like being upsidedown, then you will need to move the hp_eyepoint AND/OR alter the Turret definitions in the ODF. Altering the Turret definitions in the ODF could also have caused this problem.
Changes made in 1.3 might also have altered the behaviour of models/odf designed for previous versions.

Basically the hp_eyepoint either needs to be attached to a singular (model)turret_x OR a turret_y and then be defined as an x_turret itself in the ODF if there are more than one turret_x in the model.
Getting this setup wrong will make the guntower AI do weird stuff as it fails to aim properly.

Example
The hp_eyepoint on a spire (single gun) would be attached to the turret_x of the model.
The hp_eyepoint on a isdf GT (2 guns) would be attached to the turret_y of the model and then defined as an x_turret in the odf.
Defining the hp_eyepoint as a turret in the spire ODF would make it double turreted, you would be looking backwards upside down while firing straight up.
Attaching the HP_eyepoint to only one of the turret_x on the ISDF GT would mean that (1.3)weapon convergance would cause incorrect aiming.

[Nielk1]

Ya' think it is a case of the eyepoint being nested in the x turret and being an x turret itself? That can cause some pretty wonky stuff with double pitch rates on the camera and the reticule flying off.

Easy solution if that is the issue, remove the eyepoint for the x turret list in the ODF.

[Zero Angel]

If it's a settings issue, you can try forcing 1.2-style turret behavior. VSR turrets use the following settings (in addition to pre-existing settings) to try and mimic 1.2 ZST turret behavior in 1.3.

Code: Select all

[CraftClass]
use13Aim = false // *true
aim12CannonError0 = 0.05 // *0.75
aim12CannonError1 = -0.2 // *0.5
aim12CannonError2 = -0.03 // *0.2
aim12CannonError3 = -0.1 // *0.0

pitchScatter = 0.2
steerScatter = 0.1

[TurretTankClass]
omegaTurret = 1.0 // ZST
alphaTurret = 1.75 // ZST

These settings should transfer over well to a guntower.

[Vadam]

Okay, 1.2-style behavior makes them work fine again, probably because Starfleet was made for 1.2. The tower swings a little too far when it tries to face a unit, but it works. Figured it would be easier to try that than to try to screw around with hp_eyepoint.

[DarkCobra262]

Okay, 1.2-style behavior makes them work fine again, probably because Starfleet was made for 1.2. The tower swings a little too far when it tries to face a unit, but it works. Figured it would be easier to try that than to try to screw around with hp_eyepoint.

I've never had a problem with guntowers, interesting...

[Nielk1]

Okay, 1.2-style behavior makes them work fine again, probably because Starfleet was made for 1.2. The tower swings a little too far when it tries to face a unit, but it works. Figured it would be easier to try that than to try to screw around with hp_eyepoint.

Please check your eyepoint -> turret_x nesting.

[Zero Angel]

Yeah, 1.3 handles turret spinning (alpha/omega) a little differently which is why 1.2 settings don't always transfer well to 1.3. You can try changing the alpha/omega settings back to what they originally were and see if that restores the old behavior completely.

[Vadam]

Okay, 1.2-style behavior makes them work fine again, probably because Starfleet was made for 1.2. The tower swings a little too far when it tries to face a unit, but it works. Figured it would be easier to try that than to try to screw around with hp_eyepoint.

Please check your eyepoint -> turret_x nesting.

How would I go about doing that? As a novice modder there are a some things I haven't learned how to do yet, so cut me some slack.

Yeah, 1.3 handles turret spinning (alpha/omega) a little differently which is why 1.2 settings don't always transfer well to 1.3. You can try changing the alpha/omega settings back to what they originally were and see if that restores the old behavior completely.

I applied the orginal alpha/omega setting to the tower. The tower still turns too far when trying to face a target, but it eventually slows down and hits the target, so its a slight improvement.

[MrTwosheds]

How would I go about doing that? As a novice modder there are a some things I haven't learned how to do yet, so cut me some slack.

I would advise you to examine the stock spire and gun tower models and odfs, to see how they are constructed.
Then I would remember that you are trying to "fix" starfleet... and run away very quickly

[Red Devil]

tried adjusting steerFactor?

[Vadam]

How would I go about doing that? As a novice modder there are a some things I haven't learned how to do yet, so cut me some slack.

I would advise you to examine the stock spire and gun tower models and odfs, to see how they are constructed.
Then I would remember that you are trying to "fix" starfleet... and run away very quickly

Hey, its coming along nicely.....kind of

tried adjusting steerFactor?

Yep, didn't see any improvements.

[MrTwosheds]

Examine the models. Bodgeman made them by pulling bits off of existing bz2 models and then "sticking" them back together (in Threed, not in a modeling program) to make "new" models that looked "bz2".
This is not a way to make good models, starfleet suffered from very poor framerates due to the engine having to work 10x overtime in the not drawing occluded surfaces department, any animated model will at some point have surfaces that need to not be drawn because they are inside the model. Many of Starfleets models have permanently occluded surfaces without even being animated. In short starfleets models make the bz2 engine do a lot of work just to make them look normal. This only becomes a problem when you have a lot of units in the world, Starfleet puts lots of units in the world.
You will not be able to fix this problem. By all means continue to work on it and learn from it, but understand that it always was a bodge up and it will still be a bodge up after you have finished with it.

[Ded10c]

The last guy to try fixing Starfleet hasn't been seen in several months.

[Red Devil]

i have a working install of it i 'made' a few years back, but didn't do anything with it other than play it myself due to someone else working on it.