We Love Battlzone 2 - But how to improve it?

[MrTwosheds]

now how to stop the haters from ruining the ST games

Basically, you can't. This is not new, its the same hate culture that tried to destroy the mpi games that has now turned onto ST games. You can whois every player to build up info on the abusers and ban and ban...Then they attack you with ddos for banning them. Online play is being slowly killed by obsessives who want to dominate it by any means available.
All we can really hope for, is that one day they will actually venture out of their stinky little bedrooms and get run over by a bus.

[Zero Angel]

I love both games and have enjoyed seeing the many improvements put into bz2. Some of the things that I believe would have won more of the bz1 players is if they had kept some of the same commands you can give to units such as repairing and reloading. Sending a unit to hunt might have been a good idea if the maps were of the same size and scale as bz1. A big one that I'd like to see would be the ability to access your satellite anywhere in the field, I'm surprised they limited that feature in bz2. This last one I know is going to be controversial but faster vehicles, not lower gravity or the ability to jump higher, just faster tanks.

VSR's experimental recycler variant (only works properly on vsr maps) has BZ1-like satellite view. The Battlezone Classic mod also tries to re-create BZ1 inside of the BZ2 engine and has bz1-style satellite.

As to the faster tanks, I dont know of any mod which makes them faster except for EPIC (which also makes the levels 4x bigger). I suppose one could make a recycler variant or full mod that does something like that. Creating recycler variants isnt even very hard since you dont need to know programming or be really good at a modeling program or anything like that. All you need is notepad and maybe pak explorer installed if you prefer to use existing models for your rec variant.

Other than that I really appreciate what you've done GSH. Both you and Spork have put so much time and effort to keep this legend alive, now how to stop the haters from ruining the ST games, maybe start to have moderators in the game lobby? We get old players coming back that get hashed by cocky vets all the time, if it weren't for them I feel we'd have a lot more players.

I agree, these haters are just shooting themselves in the foot, in the long term -- where any 'fun' they get out of being that way kind of cancels itself out by lost opportunities for good games in the future, longer lobby waits, etc. I thought of it like that too when said people were attacking MPI games, someone who is turned off of MPI through game ruining is almost certainly likely to quit bz2 altogether, where a lost player has a zero chance of joining ST, one that's allowed to thrive even in MPI mode has a small chance of getting into ST and become someone who makes your games more fun.

[GSH]

now how to stop the haters from ruining the ST games, maybe start to have moderators in the game lobby? We get old players coming back that get hashed by cocky vets all the time, if it weren't for them I feel we'd have a lot more players.

There's the extra hardcore griefers, but you point out that it's a wider problem than that. There's a large (enough) number of remaining hardcore players who enjoy crushing opponents than a good game. Once you're in a game, only the host can kick players. But, a (recent) 1.3 feature is that you can ban anyone, even as a client. If you do so, you'll get a warning that you previously banned them if you run across them in a future session.

It's up to the strat community to start policing itself from its own "cocky vets." As many have been calling for all these years.

-- GSH

[Ded10c]

Other than that I really appreciate what you've done GSH. Both you and Spork have put so much time and effort to keep this legend alive, now how to stop the haters from ruining the ST games, maybe start to have moderators in the game lobby? We get old players coming back that get hashed by cocky vets all the time, if it weren't for them I feel we'd have a lot more players.

Not that I object to thanking Spork - some of his BZ1 utilities are quite useful - but what for? Spork makes it very clear that he has nothing to do with BZ2.

[Red Devil]

that behavior is not limited to BZ/BZ2 - we run into it all the time in the Battlefield series; we police it fairly well, but it's still there.

it is said that it's reflective of how our society has lost its grip on family, but i think it is the other way around - the state schools have taken over the raising of our children from our families.

fill kids' heads with mush and not give them a solid moral foundation and this is what you get: toxicity.

how to fix it? treat them like the outsiders they are: shun them, isolate them, don't keep their company. they do it because they are miserable and enjoy the suffering of others - Germans call it Schadenfreude - and misery likes company.

[Ded10c]

Please don't try to apply pseudoscience to the situation, RD. Schadenfreude is a complex psychological phenomenon and it's not something you can pin down without extremely specific subject knowledge.

[Zero Angel]

Schadenfreude is an interesting concept though. Some people just like to make sure that nobody gets 'above them' in terms of happiness or stature and their social actions involve either (1) knocking others down a peg, or (2) glorifying themselves. In other words some people just like to bring others down. No matter how you look at it -- if 90% of their social giving-taking actions are taking ones (belittling others), then it's a good clue that they're fairly toxic, or a product of a toxic environment, perpetuating toxicity. A lot of communities can sustain themselves on negativity, they're just not my favorite communities to be in.

[Ded10c]

It's certainly interesting, but I don't agree that a psychological label like that (or psychopath, which was the last one) should be applied to the situation unless there's somebody involved who's actually an expert in psychology. It's dangerous. People misunderstand and then try to act on it without understanding what they're doing, or why.

[Red Devil]

yes, of course, only experts - like ahad? - can identify toxic behavior, so don't bother thinking people... ignore the behavior and carry on; we are in control...

heck, even a dog knows when you kick it on purpose or if it's an accident.

[Ded10c]

yes, of course, only experts - like ahad? - can identify toxic behavior, so don't bother thinking people... ignore the behavior and carry on; we are in control...

heck, even a dog knows when you kick it on purpose or if it's an accident.

I didn't say their behaviour wasn't toxic. I said you shouldn't throw words around if you don't fully understand their implications.

[Red Devil]

who said i don't? you assume much, kiddo.

[Ded10c]

The way you used the word "psychopath" a few days ago - that is, incorrectly - makes it obvious.

[NostalgicRCB]

This thread certainly headed in a direction I wasn't expecting. I will say that is one reason I don't often play online games with strangers (with the exception of Battlezone) is because gamers today are obnoxious idiots with borderline sociopath disorders. It took a fair but of technical knowledge and effort to setup something like Rainbow 6 for online play back in the late 90's. The entire concept of online gaming was quite new and proved very popular on the PC platform. We still had trolls (that term wasn't coined yet) but they seemed much rarer than today. Often people were happy enough just playing an online game together that most of the gaming communities I was a part of policed themselves. Today online gaming is so huge it brings with it a wealth of new problems. I can't stand the vulgarity, harassment, and volatile attitude of most gaming communities today.

[MrTwosheds]

Many players feel the same. We have a small Troll "cult" in BZ2, unfortunately quite a few people don't seem to even recognize that they are a part of it, or how damaging to the game it is. Currently, I understand that 2 bz2 strat factions are engaged in a DDos conflict with each other, rather than the usual innocent victims... Lets hope they learn something from it. Bz2 will not survive if this sort of selfish stupidity becomes normal. A game that relies entirely on players broadcasting their own IP's in order to host, will simply die out if nobody dares to do that.
Quite a few players have voiced an interest in a "new community" one not dominated and abused by Trolls, this however becomes difficult in a situation where cyber warfare techniques are used against gamers. It is starting to look as if such a community would need to defend itself with the very weapons that threaten its existence.

[Red Spot]

unfortunately quite a few people don't seem to even recognize that they are a part of it, or how damaging to the game it is. Currently, I understand that 2 bz2 strat factions are engaged in a DDos conflict with each other, rather than the usual innocent victims... Lets hope they learn something from it.

It has been caused by some of the diehards themselves, they fail to realise it and believe their arrogance will save the day once more. Yet they are complaining about ddosing for about a year now.
Guess they'll learn any time soon?