Scav Invulnerabilty

[[ZoE]Bart]

When one team initially kills another, they often will immediately kills their first 2-4 scavs as well. This obviously results in a imbalance with respect to the ability to collect scrap/pool placing. Thus, when a team initially kills the other team quickly at the outset of a game, we generally experience a very short game. Could an option be developed which provides the initial 2 scavs invulnerability for the first minutes of a game? This would be similar to the present recycler invulnerability option in 3.1. Just a thought...

Back in the day, we would never kill the first two scavs in any game. This was one aspect of our BZ "Code of Honor" which would help make the game play last longer and more enjoyable for all. Vets know this code well.

In these days, some players seemingly are not bothered by a 5-10 minute game. I believe many players enjoy games of longer duration. Initial scav invulnerability may be a means to promote the same.

[appel]

Hey hey bart.

Actually, I think the "code of honor" was something like: Don't kill the first 2 scavs, unless they're out of their base.

Anyway, I think this is the least of the problems that persist in gameplay behavior in BZ2. Rarely if ever was this a problem. Players with half a brain protect their initial scavs.

[S.cavA.rmyG.en]

I think it would be simpler to give them weapons.
or make them unstable that would be more fun and make them more useful.

[Nielk1]

I think it would be simpler to give them weapons.
or make them unstable that would be more fun and make them more useful.

That is actually far far harder.

I can do temporary invulnerability to the first two scavs if wanted but I don't think meddling in that fine a granularity with the game by code s a good idea. I still hate a lot of the anti-griefing stuff we had to do.

[Red Spot]

Anyway, I think this is the least of the problems that persist in gameplay behavior in BZ2. Rarely if ever was this a problem. Players with half a brain protect their initial scavs.

What he is talking about is when your team loses their ships, their scavs are sitting ducks, inside and outside of their base. Not all players play with a 'code of honor'

I honostly dont see an issue with this request, as an option. Seeing the code that GSH uses to track AI-scavs it could be adapted to track the first 2 human scavs for x-time and keep their HP full.

[MrTwosheds]

Its an idea, but one that only diverts from the real issue, if they can't shoot your scavs, they will be shooting your turrets or whatever your recycler has just built, identify those who's strategies are dishonourable and just decline to play with them.
There are a couple of players about who always play together, their first strategy is to shoot you down asap and then kill your first scavengers, they will then continue to camp your recy, killing everything you build before you can make use of it, they drag this out for ages and clearly enjoy it. Should you manage to survive this you will find that they are actually no better at the game than anyone else. It is a common "lame" strategy, It does not take very long to get past the point where it is effective.

[[ZoE]Bart]

I appreciate what everyone has written in response.

The idea of giving scavs weapons is something I hadn't thought about,,thank you Nielk1. The individual operating a scav would realistically have the means to protect him/herself... Why not make this reality at least with initial two scavs/pools for xtime?

The issue I sought to address was restated well and expanded upon by Red Spot-thank you.

To appeals reply I would simply say that I have a whole brain but that doesn't help me when a team can't protect initial scavs because they are out of ships...

[Red Spot]

Weapons on a scav have "0" effect. See how much difficulty a capable player has with destroying a 'group' of Plasma-Atanks. A peashooter on scavs wont help them the slightest vs decent players, anything more will just kill the current balance where scavs are unarmed vehicles/buildings and probably require even more changes/tweaks to keep everything balanced towards each other.

[MrTwosheds]

Arming scavs would not only require a recoding of scavenger class, which cannot fire and does not use turrets. But it would also alter the whole game/play so radically that it would effectively not be Battlezone2 any more.

[Red Devil]

very easy to make the starting scavs invulnerable (or at least have more armor)

[MrTwosheds]

But pointless, the issue is not one of scavs but player intentions, if they cant shoot em, they will find another way to stop em scavenging. The people who do this know what they are doing, they enjoy games without challenge and winning is more important to them than the playing. I have been in a few games like this recently, Usually it ends up just as a struggle for me to keep a constructor alive long enough to demolish my own Recy. Choose your opponents, and decide who is a waste of time.
Banlist.ini is all you need. It seems to stop you seeing games hosted by people on it. eventually they will run out of people to play and will go and find another game to spoil.

[Red Devil]

you could also have teams start out with 3..4 pools.

thinking of making a conquest mode now, where you have to capture and keep strategic points/objectives, most likely for larger maps, like in Epic.

[Red Spot]

you could also have teams start out with 3..4 pools.

I could dig up a bit of modding that does al sorts of crazy stuff in the form of starting conditions, mostly linked to spawnpoints, if you'd like to have it. Its a WIP of a custom dll, shell, and a bunch more thats so unfinished its not worth mentioning.

Have to admit I havent done anything with it for so long that I'm not even sure where things stand with it

[Red Devil]

sure, you can shoot it to me; thx

as for need-to-win, the payoff is not in winning, but in the reaction of the losers.

[Zero Angel]

Hey hey bart.

Actually, I think the "code of honor" was something like: Don't kill the first 2 scavs, unless they're out of their base.

Anyway, I think this is the least of the problems that persist in gameplay behavior in BZ2. Rarely if ever was this a problem. Players with half a brain protect their initial scavs.

This is true. Sending the first two scavs to middle is a risky maneuver that might backfire, and it's generally understood that it's okay to attack any scavengers in the middle of the map. Therefore, many commanders deploy one of their first two scavs to prevent their income from being paralyzed if their team is wiped in the first dogfight.