I got bored...

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Nielk1
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Re: I got bored...

Postby Nielk1 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:47 pm

The one advantage of singe file multi object definitions is that you can embed alternate definitions into missions. CnC does this. This does not fit in any way the way Battlezone works. Battlezone has way more reuse of assets and long object lists would actually increase the clutter.

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Red Spot
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Re: I got bored...

Postby Red Spot » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:40 pm

It actually allows you to use less 'clutter', as I already explained, as you can have xxxx units all based on the same entry/model. Try that in BZ without spamming at the very least ODF's.
Not saying its 'better' than the current system or other systems, but it surelly has its advantages, specially in regard to the amount of clutter. No matter what you do and how many models/units you like to have, you always work with the same and same amount of files.

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Re: I got bored...

Postby Nielk1 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:58 pm

And how exactly is clutter in separate files worse than clutter in a single file? If its in separate files, you have the advantage of full separation, easy searching, the ability to treat objects as atomic units. If it is all one file, you can list all units that fit X, add a new unit without breaking compatibility with adding another unit, etc etc.

The *only* advantage is the one I noted which is what CnC did. Dark Reign 2 did the same and I am pretty sure DR1 did too. By having a single definition file you gain the ability to pack changed definitions into a mission. Are there any other benefits, no.




Hiding "clutter" in a single file doesn't make it less cluttered, it just makes it the same amount of clutter with everything even harder to find. You fail to even consider the idea of how useful atomic representations of objects are and it's silly.

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Re: I got bored...

Postby ssuser » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:22 pm

General blackdragon showed me the skins you guys are doing, and I'm impressed. If ultraken wants to add the Red Wolves in and does not get the skin substitution code in that Apollo suggested, I would volunteer to create new 3d assets for these off of existing 3d files once I had a full set of skins to work with. I am assuming rv, rb and rs would be the official extensions for all these models as 1.5 now has decent nation support.

Weapon loadouts I would leave to the multiplayer diehards to hash out.

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General BlackDragon
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Re: I got bored...

Postby General BlackDragon » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:26 pm

:D
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Nielk1
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Re: I got bored...

Postby Nielk1 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:34 pm

ssuser wrote:General blackdragon showed me the skins you guys are doing, and I'm impressed. If ultraken wants to add the Red Wolves in and does not get the skin substitution code in that Apollo suggested, I would volunteer to create new 3d assets for these off of existing 3d files once I had a full set of skins to work with. I am assuming rv, rb and rs would be the official extensions for all these models as 1.5 now has decent nation support.

Weapon loadouts I would leave to the multiplayer diehards to hash out.


Cool.

Oh, for those unaware, the 2nd thing I did in this topic, the map renders. The code is on github. Visual C# 2010 should be able to compile it.

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Re: I got bored...

Postby Ultraken » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:49 pm

Customization and moddability would be a good theme for 1.5.3, just as mission scripting was the theme for 1.5.2.

While I do want to put together full-featured model cooking and uncooking tools, retexturing is such a common operation that it's worth making a lot simpler for end-users. I think a texture substitution table in the ODF would be a decent way to handle it since it's easy and can easily support models that use multiple textures. (The Black Dogs models could/should have used a system like this since they are with few exceptions just retextured versions of the American models.)

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Re: I got bored...

Postby ssuser » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:48 pm

I tried these in the 1.5 engine, and i think the original logos are better, the new logo and stars are too gaudy and orangy, making the units look strange in the middle distance. I would change the front part of the flanker wing back to red, and change the Czar too, it just looks odd with those little white patches on it, like the CCA worker was almost out of paint... The light tank looks very snazzy though, and the orange lightning on the czar is fantastic.

Maybe I'll try modding a few of these skins my self if i get time and post up some 3 frame screenies of the 8-bit originals, the new 16 bit ones by you guys, and the ones I fiddle with so people can say what they like best. I don't think this forum allows screenshots so I'll have to put them up at battlezone1.org if i do them. BTW, did you intend these for both 1.5 and BZC or just BZC?

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Re: I got bored...

Postby General BlackDragon » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:45 pm

Could be both? Idk if you want to make a new RW texture pack for BZ1 you can.
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Nielk1
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Re: I got bored...

Postby Nielk1 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:52 pm

I have PSDs of mine if you want them.

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Re: I got bored...

Postby ssuser » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:08 pm

I'd like to see all the 24-bit skins you guys do, i have already tried altering a couple to my ideas. I meant to post some screenies over at battlezone1.org today but I just don't have time, I'll try to do it this weekend. An involved discussion on this would be interesting, even if we ended up with 2 different skin sets for BZC and BZ1.5 :D

The 16 bits do look better and less red even without the white parts, just because the have better color shading to seams. Also they are lighter, one mistake I made was to darken the metal parts on the original RW skins, this made them appear too dark in general with all the red.

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Cliffhangr13
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Re: I got bored...

Postby Cliffhangr13 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:37 am

They're beautiful do you also make models for BZ?
hmm mayb you need more...inspiration...
http://tinyurl.com/vtxfanpage

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Re: I got bored...

Postby DeusExCeteri » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:41 am

Old topic is old. Nielk1 isn't so much in the modelling scene anymore, though he does do stuff from time-to-time. Currently he's busy on the BZ2CP2 and another project that can't be called attention to just yet.

The most recent thing that N1 still infrequently updates is his Pan-Asian-Space-Coalition. Some of it can be found here: http://www.bzcomplex.com/gallery/thumbn ... p?album=74 though there's a lot he hasn't put on there. I'm answering for him because he doesn't check this site as much anymore, maybe I can get him to swing by and make an update, though.

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Cliffhangr13
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Re: I got bored...

Postby Cliffhangr13 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:35 pm

Thanks Dues Ex Ceteri haah I rarely look at the dates in forums until after the fact or if i needed to for some reason...fact is I'd probably post anyway..even if it said 1999. Thanks for replying in his place and in any capacity at all. I'm looking for someone still willing do skin jobs for bz1..checking out the BZ complex.. I'll try to contact him from there because I really love these Pan Asian concepts..I have to ask him something about that, if he's the author of these concepts, then he'll probably be interested in something I have to run by him about it. In any case I need to find anyone willing to produce (and share with me) some skins and or models for Earth based and space civilians. I could do them myself but I'm sure its less life consuming to work with others. Especially if their skills are specialized in those areas..as for me: as it is now I'm generally just a stock unit "tweaker.",radical landscaper, and plot tie-in/loophole artist/finder..in case you're wondering.
hmm mayb you need more...inspiration...
http://tinyurl.com/vtxfanpage

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Cliffhangr13
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Re: I got bored...

Postby Cliffhangr13 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:19 pm

Ultraken wrote:Customization and moddability would be a good theme for 1.5.3, just as mission scripting was the theme for 1.5.2.

While I do want to put together full-featured model cooking and uncooking tools, retexturing is such a common operation that it's worth making a lot simpler for end-users. I think a texture substitution table in the ODF would be a decent way to handle it since it's easy and can easily support models that use multiple textures. (The Black Dogs models could/should have used a system like this since they are with few exceptions just retextured versions of the American models.)

very good idea. any progress on this as of 2015?
hmm mayb you need more...inspiration...
http://tinyurl.com/vtxfanpage


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