Pilot respawn height in Strats

[Nielk1]

2Sheds does a good job of explaining why this was originally implemented. The starting RATs surely help with this somewhat, though the concern is still there. I think the thought to have sort of toggle is pretty much a definitive now, but the default remains in question.

On one side, keeping the default as it is now prevent the tactic of rapid base rushing and then killing oneself (or allies) to get them back to base into a new scout as fast as possible. On the other side, the game is greatly slowed by this, even when not using the above mentioned tactic. Competitive players prefer fast paced games. I think they also prefer longer more varied games on average, but not all do hence the initial cause for this respawn height penalty.

An easy answer would be to make the default between the two, lessening the pain on both sides, but if this should be based on a linear scale, exponential, or logarithmic decides the location of the 'middle', as does any possible clamping on the maximum height. So it makes more questions then answers.

Continue weighing in and bringing in others to weigh in and vote. We might find one side popular enough to easily make the determination of where the middle is and in fact what setting to use as the 'default'.

Can some of the competitive STRAT players go into more detail on how this is detrimental to their games? We know quite well now why it was done, but for many of us on this board, I for example, we do not know the extend of the other effects this change has had.

-- At this point I see ZA has posted and will read up on what he has posted when I can.

Also, can we consider posting some ideas of heights that would be reasonable based on distance from the rec when one has died? Algebraic equations are fine, as are basic tables.

And as one comment to what I have read so far of ZA's post, starting RATs in 1.3 are slower than normal RATs to prevent rushing with them, however, I can see the issue of turret spam early game with manufactured turrets. One could argue that a base that went for turret defense while another for turret offense would out range the incoming turrets before they could deploy, but that is a purely numeric argument and I do not know how valid that would be in a real game. As I am not very competitive I have not encountered turret rushes in a long, long time.

[Red Spot]

[snip]

Just a couple of points based on that:
1) People that do not defend should lose.
2) Killing your own can be punished in ways it only punishes that offence
3) Rush games can be awesome, as can the longwinding ones. See 1 why I dont care much about some crying about not liking short games (and I tend to give 'losing' players/teams quite a bit of room).
4) I dont enjoy a game cause of the time it takes, sitting in base with the entire team 'till we have 10 walkers is boring. Its the pace of the game that makes it fun.

As ZA states, the only reall problem before was the 'hover rush'.
I dont even see the teamkilling as an exploit, not that I use it either. The reason I dont see it as an exploit is cause 'not' killing enemy, sniper-less foes is also not seen as an exploit. Both more or less sacrifice points

...starting RATs in 1.3 are slower .. to prevent rushing...
...went for turret defense while another for turret offense...

You cant rush an experianced player with rats, starting or not. Simply cause they learned, possibly the hard way, why they start in a scout (even if tanks would be enabled) Awareness is probably your biggest asset in this game (most, I'd almost say).
I would leave the starting ones slow though, some could argue that some tactics may be a bit cheap when you select them as starting-units. Few would probably say the same when the turrets are build. Shell-options are easy to implement though

[Nielk1]

Need more people to vote for the Defaults part of the poll. I am getting the feeling from posts that a reduction in the height by default is wanted but I am seeing in the poll the opposite. Also, OFC, only people who frequent this forum have posted. I am thinking those who don't might be in line with a 'middle' or an 'off', but I cannot know unless I seek them out.

[MrTwosheds]

Certainly the respawn height combined with accidental jetpack discharge on respawn is a problem and it is annoying when you end up so high you cannot even see your base, also as I do plan on making some lower gravity maps, it would be nice if this respawn value could be tweaked at least on a per map basis.

[Nielk1]

Certainly the respawn height combined with accidental jetpack discharge on respawn is a problem and it is annoying when you end up so high you cannot even see your base, also as I do plan on making some lower gravity maps, it would be nice if this respawn value could be tweaked at least on a per map basis.

A base factor from maps? Or just apply the gravity as a fraction to the height?

[MrTwosheds]

Not sure, for all I know now that may have already been done, It only just occurred to me that you would fall even slower in the gravity was less.

[Nielk1]

I am rather sure it is not already handled. As gravity changes on ST maps have yet to occur.

[MrTwosheds]

That's only because so few people know they can do it.

[Shadow Knight]

The height of the pilot respawns is good as it adds a delay for the player to be able to help out, making death more of a penalty. Being able to adjust it would be a nice option though, as it's akin to a respawn timer.

[S.cavA.rmyG.en]

As gravity changes on ST maps have yet to occur.

well I would like to see a map or two set up for some high or low G fun.

[Nielk1]

It is looking like the solution will be thus:
An option of at least 3 states, Low/Med/High for example.
Default to the current method, that being 'High'.

[Nielk1]

I had to clean up a lot of crazy math for something that turns out to be for the wrong thing. (Of course I also found that my entire understanding of how the MPI dll even works was wrong, for like 3+ years, so, no surprises.) Of course everything is always so much simpler, so the current respawn height works like so:
If RespawnAtLowAltitude is on, which is used for tunnel maps, you respawn at 2 meters height.

If not, you respawn at
max(100,min(200+(25*AlliedPlayerCount),(Distance/4)))

[Sly]

.

[Nielk1]

The disabled weapons would only be for a few moments to prevent a fire on spawn. A second or less.

[Zax]

The disabled weapons would only be for a few moments to prevent a fire on spawn. A second or less.

Which is it, a few moments or a second?

If killing your teammate is the preferred way of getting back to base, something went horribly wrong.

I suggest making pilots hop like BZ1, where they gain speed and moon jump.