Battlezone Forums

Yeah, the geometry and texture coordinate information looks pretty simple.

Mesh cube23 { // name of the mesh
48; // number of 'vertex coordinate' lines which immediately follow
##.##; ##.##; ##.##;, // a vertex coord entry
...
...
;; // End of vertex coord list

50; // number of 'vertex index' lines which immediately follow
4; 46,44,45,47;, // a vertex index set describing a quad composed of vertexes 46, 44, 45, 47
...

There are some things in the file that are not immediately clear, though I found some XSI file format
info online. Maybe I can make sense of it. For example, what do the values in the MeshMaterialList
represent? Same for SI_Material, SI_Texture3D. This is the web page I was studying earlier; not sure
at this point how much useful information is there:

http://www.bz2md.com/fishdotxsi/xsi.htm#498052

If you need the XSIs bz2 uses, they've been released open source. Probably can be found on bzscrap.org.

Going from max -> XSI is *fairly* painless, animations require a very rigid order, and vertex anims are still not talked about as part of pleasant conversation.

XSI -> Max on the other hand, requires a few convoluted steps to get it workable, and even then it is not imported into max as a 100% editable mesh. The normals get broken I believe.

Point is, if someone makes a direct TS -> BZ and BZ -> TS set of plugins, it would be a much more viable bz tool.

Froo wrote:Thanks for the 'split' VSMIT.

It was a good idea and I have a few thoughts on creating a simple XSI export plugin. Based on what I've read about how TS compatible scripts function, modifying an existing script may be an easier task then creating an entirely new one from scratch. The few scripts that I've viewed in the TS Link Editor are pretty straight forward; they are all written out in plain text. They all seem to point to exporting the common data necessary to create a format specific layout be it ASCII text or some form of binary output.

Froo, the primary example scripts I've looked at are those released by Clinton Reese and in most cases he's also released the source code to share with other developers interested in using it as base of information for other purposes like modifying the existing code to create other TS plugins like the XSI version 1 exporter I'd like to create for BZII. I've got both Visual Basic and Visual Studio on my system now as well as Design Devil's Free Basic method of creating TSX based plugins. Those of you unfamiliar with Truespace may want to note that there is more then one method of creating addon/plugins to make Truespace more functional because that's the way Caligari intended it for future 3rd party plugin development. Anyways, until I get a better laptop then I have now my work on the project is primarily done at home in bits and pieces as my current laptop at work is so old that I can't even install TS 7.61 Beta 8 under Windows ME.

PS: I'm also not a developer by trade so this project can be consider more of a personal project. I'm also hoping that a few people on this forum are interested enough in both BZII and TS to help in the projects development. I need a few people willing to install TS 7.61 Beta 8 on their system to serve as working partners as two heads are better then just one at understanding how Truespace functions; I understand it fairly well, but I'm only one person and my knowledge of it as a whole is very limited in terms of coming up with new things to try. If anyone has any interest in helping with the project you can visit my modeling forum for information on my current work on Truespace and links to where to download TS 7.61 Beta 8. There's basically 3 different versions of TS 7.6x. The original 7.6, 7.61 Rosetta, and the version I need installed is TS 7.61 Beta 8; this is the patched version of 7.6 which had a few bugs and was fixed with 7.61 Beta 8. This version also includes TS version 6.6 that thus far has proven most useful for me as far as BZII is concerned in terms of compatibility. Thanks in advance for anyone interested in this.

Froo wrote:Yeah, the geometry and texture coordinate information looks pretty simple.

Mesh cube23 { // name of the mesh
48; // number of 'vertex coordinate' lines which immediately follow
##.##; ##.##; ##.##;, // a vertex coord entry
...
...
;; // End of vertex coord list

50; // number of 'vertex index' lines which immediately follow
4; 46,44,45,47;, // a vertex index set describing a quad composed of vertexes 46, 44, 45, 47
...

There are some things in the file that are not immediately clear, though I found some XSI file format
info online. Maybe I can make sense of it. For example, what do the values in the MeshMaterialList
represent? Same for SI_Material, SI_Texture3D. This is the web page I was studying earlier; not sure
at this point how much useful information is there:

http://www.bz2md.com/fishdotxsi/xsi.htm#498052

They seem to refer to coordinate information. The version 3.2 DirectX format that TS 6.6 exports is quite similar the XSI format that BZII supports with the layout varying mostly in how each positions the data in the text layout. The SI_ is added where the X format does not contain the extra data.

Froo, considering you already have TS installed you can create a cube in the modelside and export that with the 6.6 X exporter to a free version of 3D Exploration and convert that to XSI with the 3 DEX XSI converter then you can compare the output of both files in Notepad if you want. The export settings I use are export geometry, triangulate all faces, center and normalize object, export texture, inline material, TGA, closest 2^n size; BZII needs textures squared, i.e. 512x512 etc. Also, export animation all other settings can be left at their default settings. Oh, BZII models use the hierarchal method of linking parent objects to child object grouping.

When creating models in TS, the front of the model when viewed from the top viewport in TS should point northward. This sets the correct model orientation when your ready to export as X. Also make sure all of the pivot points are set to 0 0 0 on the X Y Z axes. Having other values will cause problems when the model is converted from XSI to MSH; which is the proprietary binary format that BZII uses for actual in game models. BTW, BZII doesn't directly use XSI models in game it has built XSI to MSH file conversion utility that the game engine uses to render the models in game.

Ok.
So, tell me if I am wrong about this, Klink.

There is at least one working method that brings models from trueSpace into BZII.
Is this correct?

Do you have any problems with any models that you bring into BZII with this approach?

If this approach works for you, and there are no others interested in using tS for BZII models,
it may not be worth the time and effort to develop a script/plugin for this. The reason I say
that is, you could be spending time making models, and importing them into BZII, adding
them to mods, etc., rather than spending a LOT of time learning the tS SDK, and writing / modifying
script/plugins for this purpose. Believe me, it takes a lot of time and effort to get something
substantial working. But, if your main objective is to learn how to write software, figure out data
structures, plan your approach, etc. then by all means, go for it.

I'm not trying to steer you away from doing this. Rather, I am sharing what I've learned. The question
is, is it worth the time and effort? It will take a considerable amount of both.
It sounds like your primary goal is to remove an extra couple steps in the conversion process.
In the time it takes to write/test/debug ... (repeat) your code, you will have been able to import
countless models into BZII. It's up to you. I personally chose to learn the tS SDK and develop plugins
because I am a software engineer by trade (electrical engineer by two degrees; hardly any software)
and wanted to improve those skills. It's been a long hard road.

It all depends on whether you think it is worth the effort.

If you can make an exporter that fully supports BZ2's version of vertex animation, people will, well, maybe not flock to TS, but they will consider it more as an alternative.

VSMIT wrote:If you can make an exporter that fully supports BZ2's version of vertex animation, people will, well, maybe not flock to TS, but they will consider it more as an alternative.

The word you are looking for is exodus

Zax wrote:The word you are looking for is exodus

I'd still not use TS as my main modeling platform. I don't like the interface, as I've said before.

VSMIT wrote:If you can make an exporter that fully supports BZ2's version of vertex animation, people will, well, maybe not flock to TS, but they will consider it more as an alternative.

Froo makes some excellent points considering the very low interest in Truespace for BZII model creation. As I've said this is just a personal project. I already have the capability to use TS X models that very easily convert to version 1 XSI for BZII via conversion with 3 DEX. Your problably correct saying it may just be a waste of time, and free time is so scarce now a days. Besides other modeling software like Blender can do the same thing with an exporter like 3DS, X, OBJ and probably several other 3 DEX compatible formats as well. Considering my programming skills are nearly zip. BZII, may very well have gone the way of the Dodo Bird by the time I actually make any progress on the TS exporter plugin. I guess I'll just have to give it a whirl and ask questions as I firgure things out, seek answers, and move on as I have time. Thanks for the logical feedback guys.