Presidential Debate

[Red Devil]

you do realize that we are all doomed as a species, don't you? and that no amount of hand-wringing and arm waving will change it at all?

*pictures MTS dressed up as a dalek, charging into the lobby of some corporation yelling, 'exterminaaaate! exterminaaaate!'*

[MrTwosheds]

I realise that we are doomed as a species unless we start using our intelligence to prevent that from happening. Staying silent won't help. Confronting the issues, challenging the old ways of thinking and finding solutions to problems is the only way to go forward. Admitting defeat and deliberately making the situation worse is really unhelpful.
Will all those who really believe we are beyond help please leave this Universe asap They have nothing to stay for.

*pictures MTS dressed up as a dalek, charging into the lobby of some corporation yelling, 'exterminaaaate! exterminaaaate!'*

Actually the realisation of who I was actually (being deceived into) working for, what they were actually doing and why was actually a big part of the inspiration for my uncompleted mod. If I did actually have access to icbm style weaponry you would all be wondering wtf someone blew up your lumber mills and put your covert logging fleet on the bottom of the ocean. Personally though I would have drawn a line at hitting their head office like al queda did. Its more important that America understands why they need to stop this organisation doing what they do. The fact that I cannot even make a guy like you understand that it is your nations economy that they are destroying just as much as the forests, does sometimes make me wonder why I bother at all.

Got to wonder where the hell their going to go after they have finished bankrupting the Congo...

[Red Devil]

funny. i know people like to hold onto hope (wishful thinking, actually) but the world population will increase by 50% in the next 38 years and double in 60.

imagine 50% more people driving cars on the roads you drive.

now imagine 100% as many.

http://www.unfpa.org/6billion/pages/worldpopgrowth.htm

imagine all the food and stuff they and the ones inside those cars will create demand for.

people don't care - they just want what they want and need.

it's recursion, basically.

if you think is going to end well, dream on.

[MrTwosheds]

That's what I mean, you cannot see any other way than the way we have been doing things for less than a century.
Obviously if it ends... it ends badly, It does not have to end. We just have to change the ways we do it, like we always have done. We have all the technology we need to make it work, its just a question of how to change and how to make the selfish and power hungry go along with it.

[Red Devil]

missing the point: nothing will stop people from breeding like bunnies. we're past the tipping point and the only way to reverse things is for a global pandemic, global war, or global famine to happen that will quickly reduce the population. remember, think globally!

[MrTwosheds]

You are incorrect, it is quite clear that the one thing that does slow or stop population growth is a high standard of living. My own nations (idiot) politicians have found it necessary to encourage immigration just so they can maintain its purposeless economic growth. It is the same in most of Europe. Yes in many nations population growth is rising out of control, mostly due too poverty. This will eventually correct itself naturally, there's nothing like a shortage of food to get people killing each other and causing pandemics to emerge. In itself this population growth is not a biosphere threatening problem. It becomes one only if they are forced to use unsustainable technologies, such as fossil fuels. It is the idiots attempting to continue the use of these technologies who are creating the real problem. Even with its massive population India is still mostly self sufficient in its food production.

[jack775544]

missing the point: nothing will stop people from breeding like bunnies. we're past the tipping point and the only way to reverse things is for a global pandemic, global war, or global famine to happen that will quickly reduce the population. remember, think globally!

Here is a good quote for you:

"The Earth is a cradle of the mind, but we cannot live forever in a cradle." - Konstantin E. Tsiolkovsky (1857 - 1935)

[Red Spot]

You are incorrect, it is quite clear that the one thing that does slow or stop population growth is a high standard of living.

I have to somewhat agree with RD.
Over here we kick out foreigners that have lived here 8 years, where the kids speak Dutch better than some(lots of) 'native speakers' and are running a succesfull small business.
However we do give out childsupport, and when you think you only get that when you're at the bottom of the income-range, you'd be up for a surprise.
Even more fun, when you adress this 'issue' you will find yourself at the wrong end of the fury of a lot of Dutch mothers ...

[MrTwosheds]

missing the point: nothing will stop people from breeding like bunnies. we're past the tipping point and the only way to reverse things is for a global pandemic, global war, or global famine to happen that will quickly reduce the population. remember, think globally!

You are missing my point Red, I don't really care if Humans are so dumb that they wipe themselves out, that's just evolution in action. I am concerned with the survival of life itself, it is of far greater importance than our single species.
From an evolutionary perspective, humanity has decided to drive the wrong way down the motorway very fast, nothing good is likely to come from this.

[Red Devil]

oh, heh, then we are basically on the same page; life will go on after you're gone. there's stuff swimming about miles deep and bugs and fish in caves and little pockets of life. me, i'll still be drinking micros and howling at the moon (literally).

[Red Spot]

Life on this planet will go nowhere untill our Sun says so. I'm not worried about that. Which is also why you wont find me supporting any greenpeace sort of groups, who in effect are often only part of the problem they say they want to solve ..
I'm also not saying we need some global cleansing like RD likes to advertise, but we probably do need to clean up 'ourselves' or find some way we can truelly survive the way we currently live, if not, we will pay the price. We may take some life with us, but surelly not all life.

[MrTwosheds]

Acidifying the oceans could be totally catastrophic, if the plankton die out, the free oxygen levels will deplete fairly rapidly. I agree that we cannot kill all the life, the bacteria and archea are tough little bugs, but we could certainly set evolution back 4 billion years or so.

[Red Devil]

Stop Barry now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Hsb17MRAj8

[jack775544]

Stop Barry now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Hsb17MRAj8

I do agree that Obama wasn't a good president but I disagree on the conservatism bit it tries to ram down your throat at the end. When they say that the private sector can do anything better then the public sector they forget to mention that a private company needs to make money, therefore you have to pay for everything (eg. break your leg, pay to get it fixed and then a bit more to line someones pockets).

I am just glad that I don't live in America and have to choose between to candidates that I don't particually like. Not that it is much better here in Australia where the 2 major candidates are either left wing or ultra left wing ... oh well, i think i will vote for the country party when the election come around.

[Red Devil]

the most important vote is for your representatives, both locally and for congress; presidents just control the huge federal bureaucracy.