Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

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Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by DeusExCeteri » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:25 pm

AHadley wrote:
Killer AK wrote:They are the company that has the rights to Battlezone now.
I don't know where people keep getting this information. All the information we have suggests they own the rights to Battlezone (1980) and Battlezone 2000; we have nothing to suggest they own Battlezone and Battlezone II even after a twitter conversation with the CEO.
I don't see why they would try to keep something like that a secret, not unless they themselves are unsure if they have the rights to it?

As for satanism in their games... are you referring to the whole zombie-nazi thing? For one thing the player is fighting against the demons, that would sorta imply an anti-demon philosophy, just a thought. I mean really, how can you be against a game that makes Hitler out to be a bloodthirsty satanist demonspawn? Most Christians I know are eager to support any statement that Hitler was only pretending to be a Christian and was secretly a Satanist/Athiest/Muslim/Insert Bad Religion Here.

That may have been a bad joke, I'm sorry if I sound judgemental I'm just trying to understand your point of view, no offence is meant.

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Re: Battlezone 3 RANT

Post by Ded10c » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:07 pm

Oh wow, I didn't even see the comments about satanism in OP. Reminds me of the furore around DOOM. Which, by the way, was utterly ridiculous. Art portraying demons, hell, zombies or nazis is not immediately evil - and satanism as a religion has done an awful lot more good than most.

Also bear in mind that this is the company that owns 2000AD (Judge Dredd, amongst others), has extensive work on the Alien vs Predator series and produced two of the four Battlefront games. And that's just part of their extensive back catalogue.

Now, the questions I can answer;
DeusExCeteri wrote:I don't see why they would try to keep something like that a secret, not unless they themselves are unsure if they have the rights to it?
It's for a variety of reasons, but chief amongst them is usually to avoid disappointment when the final product doesn't live up to what the players expect as a result of early disclosures.
LtFEED wrote:so who owns the copywrite to BZ98 and BZ2?
We don't know. Could be Activision, could be EA, could be Rebellion, could be in IP hell. EA is the least likely but we don't have enough information to say for certain between the others.
LtFEED wrote:are those separate TM's?
Seperate games, so the names are trademarked separately; but the same IP, so the story is protected as a single unit.
LtFEED wrote:i wonder how much they spent on those brands?
$566,500
MrTwosheds wrote:I believe what they bought (at an auction) was the right to use the name Battlezone rather than the rights to any existing games.
That's what the sources we have suggest.
MrTwosheds wrote:This does not mean that they have any plans to build such a game, more likely just plan to sell the franchise on at some point.
Given Rebellion's past and size it's fair to say they're not inclined to acts like this.
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Re: Battlezone 3 RANT

Post by DeusExCeteri » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:23 am

AHadley wrote:satanism as a religion has done an awful lot more good than most.
Just gonna jump in because I feel like AH should've gone into a bit more detail before making that statement.

This is all the opinion of a Deist (believe in the god but not the book) so you can take it or leave it. From what I know there are generally two kinds of Satanists: people who think of it as a joke and people who are sincere in their belief.

1) People who think of it as a joke: These people are generally just Atheists pretending to worship the devil for the sole purpose of making other people angry. These people will dress themselves in the occult, carry around an upside-down cross (traditionally a Christian symbol, origins had nothing to do with satan), scribble 666 on bathroom stalls in public places and generally make a huge nuisance of themselves. These people are ignorant, hypocritical @$$holes who think it is the epitome of satire to mock Christianity by worshiping its villain, avoid these people at all costs. Hopefully their ilk will all die homeless in a gutter before they find a mate and pass on their perverted worldview.

2) People who are sincere in their belief: these are people who have read the Bible and come to the conclusion (wrongly or not) that Satan was the good guy and that Yahweh (God) wrote him as the villain to lead foolish humans down the path of worshiping a false deity. These people, surprisingly, are almost exclusively very well-natured and well-intentioned, they believe in being kind and generous and respecting others, believing it to be the true will of Satan that mankind prosper. While they shy away from Yahweh it is not because they believe in the powers of "evil" but merely because they have been convinced that Satan was cast out by an egotistical, power-hungry, self-centred, wrathful, vengeful, jealous, and ill-natured God who doesn't care about humanity, only the worship he receives.

I most surely don't speak for this kind of satanist but if you ever do meet one, be respectful to their beliefs and they most assuredly will be respectful of yours. Find a shared-ground topic between the two of you, be it gay rights, racism, feminism, global warming, pro-choice, gamergate, third-world movements, terrorism, men's rights, gun control, etc, etc, whatever, just something. Who knows, you may just have more in common with a Satanist than you'd realized!

All this is, of course, ridiculous, as no matter how convincing the argument for this brand of Satanism is, the more convincing argument will always be that there is no Satan. The Old Testament only gives mention to "hassatan" but this isn't a name but a title meaning "the accuser". Several angels and men carried the title of hassatan throughout the old testament (including King David at one point, IIRC), and it is not so much related to evil as it is simply the judgement of another. Ignorant atheists will point out that God made a bet with the devil over the fate of Job but this is incorrect, the bet was with an angel who was simply taking the role of hassatan in accusing Job of not being truly devoted to God, the biblical God has never made a "deal with the devil", as it were.

In the New testament hassatan became the figure Satan because of Pagan beliefs. The ancient Hebrews worshiped Yahweh as being the lord of all things, both good and evil, he was a god of balance. As Christianity began to spread west, however, there became a clear issue with this ideology. The pagans believed in good and evil as separate forces, equal but divided, and found it hard to reconcile worshiping a god that was both all-good and all-evil at the same time, so to help spread their faith Christians took a popular figure in Paganism (Pan) and twisted him into a monstrous demon, the lord of all evil, named Satan and cast out of heaven by the all-perfect God. This served the dual purpose of separating good and evil into two forces, thereby making worship of God an easier transition for the pagans, as well as demonizing the gods they already worshiped and inciting them to "cure" other pagans of their evil religion by spreading Christian beliefs.

That pretty much sums up everything I know, I wouldn't be surprised if some of this is wrong so do correct any mistakes you see.

Also, not trying to convert anyone from any specific religion here. This has been an odd derailment of the topic but I feel it important that people stay informed about things. I don't care what crazy beliefs people might worship in their own homes, declare the FSM to be lord for all I care, but I do care about people staying informed. The Bible has an immensely rich and varied history, it was the collaborative effort of multiple scholars over literally thousands of years. Passages have been brought in, borrowed, altered, and removed entirely throughout its long history and I don't think anyone can truly call themselves a "Christian" until they've done some research into how their beliefs came to be. Life is a learning experience, to waste your only opportunity never learning about the past of your own faith is, in my mind, one of the worst sins one can commit.

Anyway, sorry for going on this rant, I just get really passionate sometimes and have to let my thoughts out to somebody. If I did offend in some way, it was not the intent. I don't like adding this little disclaimer at the bottom but sometimes people read/speak without thinking. And that's okay, we've all done that before, I'm just covering my butt here. ;)

P.S. Cool little tidbit, did you know that there was another faith on-the-rise at the time of christianity's arrival that might have become the one-true religion in Europe had the Christian faith not caught on, the way it almost didn't when pagans rejected the Hebrew version of Yahweh? This faith was the worship of Isis, an Egyptian goddess who started seeing cults in her name rise up everywhere across Europe, from Rome to England, celebrating her as the mother of all gods. This gets even more interesting because the worship of Isis, rather than being eliminated, was absorbed into Christianity, her cults being reformed to worship the Virgin Mary instead. This is why you might notice such strong symbolic connection between Isis suckling baby Horus and Mary suckling baby Jesus.

To think that, had Christianity never spread, Europe and (by extension) much of the world might still have come to worship a single one-true god but that god would've been the Egyptian Isis! Who can even say if the world would've been better or worse off for it, it's not like worshiping a god that forbid murder stopped the medieval Europeans from going to war over gold and land and such, eh? This is what I mean by learning something from studying the history of your own faith, the religions we know today are the result of an exchange of ideas, not a single idea overpowering all others, by looking into the past of your own beliefs you will open the doors to countless other worldviews that you never even realized were so deeply connected to your own. ;)

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Re: Battlezone 3 RANT

Post by GSH » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:15 pm

This thread devolved quickly. It's on my watchlist to split/lock/whatever if it goes much further off.

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Re: Battlezone 3 RANT

Post by Ded10c » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:29 pm

Deus, the internet needs more posters like you.
battlezone.wikia.com needs your help!

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Re: Battlezone 3 RANT

Post by MrTwosheds » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:14 pm

We went through a phase of quasi theological/political discussions here a few years back. They tend to get messy, so for now we generally all just quietly accept that we all have our own opinions and respect each other for it. It's the best way.
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Re: Battlezone 3 RANT

Post by Red Devil » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:46 am

Well, just remember that you know that I'm always right and things will be okay. :P

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Re: Battlezone 3 RANT

Post by MrTwosheds » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:07 am

I have been contemplating the possibility that everyone is right...It makes a lot more sense that everyone being wrong.
Existence is proven by perception alone.
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Re: Battlezone 3 RANT

Post by Red Devil » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:18 am

I think you're right.
If given the truth, the people can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts - and beer.
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Re: Battlezone 3 RANT

Post by MrTwosheds » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:43 am

A Universe without life would have not one thought, not one perception, no time, no information. No truth. It is not a story, its just not anything.
One with life, creates information, creates time, creates stories, all of them...an infinity of stories each one a perception. It reads itself.
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Re: Battlezone 3 RANT

Post by Killer AK » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:00 am

Just gonna jump in because I feel like AH should've gone into a bit more detail before making that statement.

This is all the opinion of a Deist (believe in the god but not the book) so you can take it or leave it. From what I know there are generally two kinds of Satanists: people who think of it as a joke and people who are sincere in their belief.

1) People who think of it as a joke: These people are generally just Atheists pretending to worship the devil for the sole purpose of making other people angry. These people will dress themselves in the occult, carry around an upside-down cross (traditionally a Christian symbol, origins had nothing to do with satan), scribble 666 on bathroom stalls in public places and generally make a huge nuisance of themselves. These people are ignorant, hypocritical @$$holes who think it is the epitome of satire to mock Christianity by worshiping its villain, avoid these people at all costs. Hopefully their ilk will all die homeless in a gutter before they find a mate and pass on their perverted worldview.

--> I worked with a few guys like that. Over the years. Funny how it's mostly the Atheist side that does that. The most prominent ones believe everything is done by the power of your mind where as everyone else believes you can derive powers from other things. Regardless what thier thought processes are on the issue the end result is they still serve something because being a satanist is all about exercising BELIEF.

2) People who are sincere in their belief: these are people who have read the Bible and come to the conclusion (wrongly or not) that Satan was the good guy and that Yahweh (God) wrote him as the villain to lead foolish humans down the path of worshiping a false deity. These people, surprisingly, are almost exclusively very well-natured and well-intentioned, they believe in being kind and generous and respecting others, believing it to be the true will of Satan that mankind prosper. While they shy away from Yahweh it is not because they believe in the powers of "evil" but merely because they have been convinced that Satan was cast out by an egotistical, power-hungry, self-centred, wrathful, vengeful, jealous, and ill-natured God who doesn't care about humanity, only the worship he receives.

-->I can't really comment here because i believe your missing the other half of this paragraph in defining these people. That whole last sentence seemed like a quote from Richard Dawkins. I have only really met Atheists claiming to be satanists where as listed in Wikipedia there's 9 or so factions of it all. Which are Satanists and DO exercise certain beliefs, including the belief in Satan himself.

I most surely don't speak for this kind of satanist but if you ever do meet one, be respectful to their beliefs and they most assuredly will be respectful of yours. Find a shared-ground topic between the two of you, be it gay rights, racism, feminism, global warming, pro-choice, gamergate, third-world movements, terrorism, men's rights, gun control, etc, etc, whatever, just something. Who knows, you may just have more in common with a Satanist than you'd realized!

--> Actually I found I had a lot in common with the Satanists I met with the exception of one point. They were Atheists Only in my books. The one thing I admired about them though is that unlike Atheists they admit they have power regardless if it's power of the mind, or by objects or deeds. It's still faith based.
Needless of course with Christian ideology I question why they would call themselves Satanists only to cause confusion. They should have called themselves light bulbs or something else.

All this is, of course, ridiculous, as no matter how convincing the argument for this brand of Satanism is, the more convincing argument will always be that there is no Satan. The Old Testament only gives mention to "hassatan" but this isn't a name but a title meaning "the accuser". Several angels and men carried the title of hassatan throughout the old testament (including King David at one point, IIRC), and it is not so much related to evil as it is simply the judgement of another. Ignorant atheists will point out that God made a bet with the devil over the fate of Job but this is incorrect, the bet was with an angel who was simply taking the role of hassatan in accusing Job of not being truly devoted to God, the biblical God has never made a "deal with the devil", as it were.

In the New testament hassatan became the figure Satan because of Pagan beliefs. The ancient Hebrews worshiped Yahweh as being the lord of all things, both good and evil, he was a god of balance. As Christianity began to spread west, however, there became a clear issue with this ideology. The pagans believed in good and evil as separate forces, equal but divided, and found it hard to reconcile worshiping a god that was both all-good and all-evil at the same time, so to help spread their faith Christians took a popular figure in Paganism (Pan) and twisted him into a monstrous demon, the lord of all evil, named Satan and cast out of heaven by the all-perfect God. This served the dual purpose of separating good and evil into two forces, thereby making worship of God an easier transition for the pagans, as well as demonizing the gods they already worshiped and inciting them to "cure" other pagans of their evil religion by spreading Christian beliefs.

--> God gave four curses in the bible at the Garden of Eden story. One to Man, One to Woman, One to the Snake, and One to the Devil. How would you bridge that to what you just said?

That pretty much sums up everything I know, I wouldn't be surprised if some of this is wrong so do correct any mistakes you see.

Also, not trying to convert anyone from any specific religion here. This has been an odd derailment of the topic but I feel it important that people stay informed about things. I don't care what crazy beliefs people might worship in their own homes, declare the FSM to be lord for all I care, but I do care about people staying informed. The Bible has an immensely rich and varied history, it was the collaborative effort of multiple scholars over literally thousands of years. Passages have been brought in, borrowed, altered, and removed entirely throughout its long history and I don't think anyone can truly call themselves a "Christian" until they've done some research into how their beliefs came to be. Life is a learning experience, to waste your only opportunity never learning about the past of your own faith is, in my mind, one of the worst sins one can commit.

--> You might enjoy a study between bibles versions. I ended up a KJV only person for a lot of years but realized it's more what the KJV was translated off of that being the Textus Receptus. You learn a lot of history in that, including stuff you don't want to know.

Anyway, sorry for going on this rant, I just get really passionate sometimes and have to let my thoughts out to somebody. If I did offend in some way, it was not the intent. I don't like adding this little disclaimer at the bottom but sometimes people read/speak without thinking. And that's okay, we've all done that before, I'm just covering my butt here. ;)

--> I like reading your post. I was saying the imagery i have been seeing posted with that game looked highly satanic and subliminal everything. This is of course Satanic in the christian belief that there is a Satan, there is a Hell, and their emblems. Not really refering who the Anton LeVay's believers. (LeVay wrote the satanic bible and later turned christian).

P.S. Cool little tidbit, did you know that there was another faith on-the-rise at the time of christianity's arrival that might have become the one-true religion in Europe had the Christian faith not caught on, the way it almost didn't when pagans rejected the Hebrew version of Yahweh? This faith was the worship of Isis, an Egyptian goddess who started seeing cults in her name rise up everywhere across Europe, from Rome to England, celebrating her as the mother of all gods. This gets even more interesting because the worship of Isis, rather than being eliminated, was absorbed into Christianity, her cults being reformed to worship the Virgin Mary instead. This is why you might notice such strong symbolic connection between Isis suckling baby Horus and Mary suckling baby Jesus.

--> Christians who are into the study of the stars, know about the similarities between the different religions. The problem here is the whole redemption story was told in the stars. And according to Christian beliefs it was corrupted by the devil seeing the things of God are a mockery to the devil. And I could get into bible verses at this point. Needless to say Christianity would always say that this has always been around since the beginning...and it's every other religion that copied Christianity-Judaism.
That being set aside for the moment but still on topic Christians and Jews never claimed to be the oldest religion. We as in the guys I hung around always thought the Babylonian Religion was the oldest. but even though that religion wasn't the oldest per-se because other cultures had religions that are said to date older. The reason being is that the Babylonians had an amalgamation of a whole bunch of beliefs that predate the noahs ark flood. Some people call their religion Paganism, but I always thought of it something a little more different.

To think that, had Christianity never spread, Europe and (by extension) much of the world might still have come to worship a single one-true god but that god would've been the Egyptian Isis! Who can even say if the world would've been better or worse off for it, it's not like worshiping a god that forbid murder stopped the medieval Europeans from going to war over gold and land and such, eh? This is what I mean by learning something from studying the history of your own faith, the religions we know today are the result of an exchange of ideas, not a single idea overpowering all others, by looking into the past of your own beliefs you will open the doors to countless other worldviews that you never even realized were so deeply connected to your own. ;)

--> The problem is people associating Christianity to justify their war. In times past. It was more a culture things, and to legitimize it they Christianized it. I have never been able to find a compromise between the two as of yet. On the one hand a dude like Hitler had to be stopped. On the other hand "Do violence to no man". And how do you know the politicians are telling you the truth? Really tough topic.

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Re: Battlezone 3 RANT

Post by DeusExCeteri » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:28 am

Wow, I'm happy to see such a pleasant response, Killer AK, I usually am not so lucky.

First of all, GSH literally said not to keep derailing this topic in this direction but what the hay. I find this far more interesting than the rant about a hypothetical BZ3. I'll try to answer the questions you raised but do forgive the fact that my knowledge is quite limited in some areas. I used to have a Bible, it's around here somewhere I'm sure, Lord only knows where it might've ended up.

-->I can't really comment here because i believe your missing the other half of this paragraph in defining these people. That whole last sentence seemed like a quote from Richard Dawkins. I have only really met Atheists claiming to be satanists where as listed in Wikipedia there's 9 or so factions of it all. Which are Satanists and DO exercise certain beliefs, including the belief in Satan himself.

I was probably thinking of Dawkins when I typed that out but to be honest I haven't been really keeping up with him. I suppose I did leave that paragraph somewhat unfinished but that's because of an honest gap in my own knowledge, I just don't feel comfortable stepping too far into hypothesis on some things so I left it at what I could reasonably say for certain.

--> Actually I found I had a lot in common with the Satanists I met with the exception of one point. They were Atheists Only in my books. The one thing I admired about them though is that unlike Atheists they admit they have power regardless if it's power of the mind, or by objects or deeds. It's still faith based.
Needless of course with Christian ideology I question why they would call themselves Satanists only to cause confusion. They should have called themselves light bulbs or something else.

Heh, I'm glad to hear that! I live by the philosophy that most people are good people until proven otherwise. I think a good name for this brand of Satanists might be "Luciferian" or something, since Lucifer comes from Greek and means "shining one", supposedly the name of Satan before he was cast out (though some will argue he was Samael, which makes better sense since it matches other angelic names and angels weren't from Greece, last I heard). I think Luciferian fits well with the idea of Satan-as-the-good guy, even if it's being used as a metaphor and not genuinely, it also fits with your light bulb thing (even if that was a joke).

--> God gave four curses in the bible at the Garden of Eden story. One to Man, One to Woman, One to the Snake, and One to the Devil. How would you bridge that to what you just said?

You've stumped me there, I do not recall this being a part of the story. Not that I'm not familiar with it, oh no, I've heard it all too many times is all. I've heard interpretations ranging from the Tree of knowledge being Satan and eating the fruit of the tree being an unsavoury euphemism... to interpretations where the story is purely metaphorical and represents ancient man leaving it's tribal culture to discover technology and the world beyond only to start countless centuries of war and sin and suffering in the process.
I remember two of the curses, women being cursed with painful childbirth (real unfair, God) and the snake being cursed with a lack of legs and having to eat nothing but ash for all its days (is that right? it's a very odd curse if so). Both of these things have fairly well documented scientific explanations (some snakes still have their legs! they're just completely useless) but I'll not touch on that since I don't know your personal view on evolution. I like to think that when it is said God created all the things on Earth it is referring to the creation of a single cell from which all life did evolve. The current Pope holds a similar view IIRC, Pope Francis is a cool dude. One of the first Popes in a very long time who has tried to live his life by the teachings of Christ, a very noble man.

--> You might enjoy a study between bibles versions. I ended up a KJV only person for a lot of years but realized it's more what the KJV was translated off of that being the Textus Receptus. You learn a lot of history in that, including stuff you don't want to know.

I'll look that up! The last time I heard anyone talking about different versions of the Bible they were translating an originally Latin part of the new testament into Hebrew to try to prove Jesus predicted Barrack Obama being the devil. Needless to say I haven't been to truting of different versions of the Bible since that headscratcher but I'll check this one out. :)

--> Christians who are into the study of the stars, know about the similarities between the different religions. The problem here is the whole redemption story was told in the stars. And according to Christian beliefs it was corrupted by the devil seeing the things of God are a mockery to the devil. And I could get into bible verses at this point. Needless to say Christianity would always say that this has always been around since the beginning...and it's every other religion that copied Christianity-Judaism.
That being set aside for the moment but still on topic Christians and Jews never claimed to be the oldest religion. We as in the guys I hung around always thought the Babylonian Religion was the oldest. but even though that religion wasn't the oldest per-se because other cultures had religions that are said to date older. The reason being is that the Babylonians had an amalgamation of a whole bunch of beliefs that predate the noahs ark flood. Some people call their religion Paganism, but I always thought of it something a little more different.

My mother, formerly a Mormon, believes that all religions are imperfect but still mostly correct versions of the same idea of the worlds beyond. Much of what I believe in comes from her and I'm thankful for that, I'm fortunate to have had such a positive figure in my life, I know many families aren't as lucky. The idea that it's been the same religion from the beginning, when primitive humans were drawing their history on the cave walls and praising the spirits of the wind and sea and night has always just resonated with me. The names of the players change but the story remains the same.
Paganism is a very general term, it comes from Greek and meant "the religion of the woods" referring to what "savages" beyond Greece worshiped. In modern times it has pretty well come to refer to any faith with multiple gods, from the Nordic religion to the ancient Greeks themselves.

The Noahs Ark story has some interesting history behind it, some historians think it was actually a romanticized account of the flooding of the Black Sea! We're given the rough dimensions of the boat in cubits, after all, so it's safe to say there wasn't room for all the world's animals, it could certainly have fit the local fauna from the now sunken valley, though. Regardless as to whether or not you believe it was a real event I do hope you're implying you believe the 6000-year-old-Earth story is hogwash. It was a Catholic priest that made that prediction centuries ago, using incomplete information and living in a time when the Earth was still flat. The Universe is too magnificent to believe it's only been around 6000 years.
Human civilization? Sure, that's a very close estimate and makes some sense, but no way the Earth is that young, not when we know with all certainty that the stars in in the night sky are millions of lightyears beyond us. At the very best you could say that when God created the universe, he made it act as though it had always been there. If that's the case though, then what's the difference to us?

--> The problem is people associating Christianity to justify their war. In times past. It was more a culture things, and to legitimize it they Christianized it. I have never been able to find a compromise between the two as of yet. On the one hand a dude like Hitler had to be stopped. On the other hand "Do violence to no man". And how do you know the politicians are telling you the truth? Really tough topic.

Sadly, even within the Bible itself we see war frequently glorified, especially the old testament where Hebrew scholars felt the need to record their conquests within their holy scripture. Like it or not, this was a book written by fallible humans. Their soldiers go off to war, to r*pe and pillage a neighboring city-state, and when they come back victorious they believe it had been God's will that they succeeded rather than the very simple equation of better weapons and more warriors versus a small and feeble peasant army. So they record it in the book as God's will, and future generations are left to hang their heads in shame. Many modern Judaist/Hebrew scholars believe that much of the old testament records a very dark time in their history, a time when God had abandoned them and left them to wallow in their foolish sins.

Hitler set out to rid Europe of the Jews, originally by deporting them en masse, but when no one would take them he decide it best to just exterminate. This was a very dark time in history, terrifying to know it was less than a century ago that Christians saw Jews as evil Jesus-hating heretics. They weren't even seen as the same race, it was very much an issue of them being thought of as alien in both faith and heritage. I'd like to think that the world has learned but it hasn't, there are still people who think like the Nazis did, people who will praise a game like Bioshock Infinite as being a perfect representation of how whites are the master race, completely ignorant of the satire in the game.

I'm not sure what the real answer to violence is but I know I don't believe in a Hell, not even for Hitler. I can't reconcile in my mind the idea of a place where punishment is eternal, it is no consolation for those wronged to know that anyone is suffering endlessly in a realm where pain has lost all meaning. If there is an afterlife waiting for us I have no doubt there'd be judgment as well but that judgement should come in having to seek out the forgiveness of each and every other soul that you wronged in life. If there is a hell, I will tell you now that God can strike me down into it for the rest of all existence because I WILL NOT be content to spend eternity in the clouds, I WILL NOT enter into the Grand Designer's loving embrace, and I WILL NOT accept ANY final reward if I know that EVEN A SINGLE SOUL is cursed to spend eternity in a nightmare from which they cannot wake. No one is passed redemption, anyone who believes so doesn't understand the meaning of the word faith.

There cannot be a Hell, there cannot be a Satan, and there cannot exist a battle between good and evil. These are human concepts that originated in our own inability to comprehend the divine, they are stories intended to comfort us when we feel wronged, to tell us that the reason bad things happen is because there is a dark force that wills it upon us. I know in my heart, though, that there is no comfort for me in thinking that an all-loving God could punish it's own children for exercising the free will it gave them.

This is what I believe to be the truth. I don't expect anyone to agree, I merely hold hope that someone else will understand.

P.S. This was supposed to be a fun little discussion but now I've gone and made myself all sad. Honestly, if GSH moves this I won't complain, I think I wanna talk about something else now. :(

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MrTwosheds
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Re: If you tried to register in the past 36 hours...

Post by MrTwosheds » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:45 pm

The path to truth has no end, but it passes through wisdom. The path to ignorance starts and ends at doctrine. Keep walking. ;)
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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by Ded10c » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:19 am

Glad I finally read that Deus, it's a well-written and compelling argument.

For those interested, look up the Council of Nicea. This was the moment at which the modern Christian Bible was written; the King James is just a translation in comparison. This is where the Roman Emperor (Constantine the Great) took Christianity and merged it with the polytheism of Rome in order to assuage the brewing civil war; the polytheists had no problem with people worshipping other gods as they worshipped pretty much all of them (this being the reason so many Greek gods were adopted into the Roman pantheon), but the Christians quite publicly denounced any god that wasn't their own and that is why they were labelled as heretics. The problem was that with Christianity growing at the rate it was the tensions in Rome looked very likely to erupt into something far less pleasant than simple persecution. The solution? Create a compromise, adding the best of both worlds and removing the bits that caused trouble. Parts of the bible that made Jesus look human were removed (the Gospel of Mary (the thirteenth disciple), for example) and parts that made him look more godly were added. The bible was changed by man to the point that it couldn't be considered representative of what came before.

The discovery of that (supported by an assortment of other issues around the crusades) is the main reason my father turned from Christianity a few years ago. I'm not sure where he is now - somewhere between agnostic and igtheist, I think.

On the note of violence in the Bible - God orders genocide at least for times (that's just from a quick search), and I'm sure you've seen the contents of Revelations. This is one of the reasons I keep wanting to slap people who say it's a more peaceful religion than Islam.
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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by Psychedelic Rhino » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:56 am

ALL religions based on a unfalsifiable entity is simply wishful thinking and is the central tenet of the world's current problems. To add insult to injury, one of the more popular books used to justify such an entity is so chock full of sanctioned brutality and contradictions, that balancing an anti spirit (satan) to the "righteous higher spirit", is preposterous. To allow slavery, to sanction the killing of all of ones enemies, yet spare the young virgins to be split up among the conquerors, is pure evil by any modern sensibility. And isn't that what we want, guidance on how to live?

And comparing atheism to satanism is a painfully dated mindset and only shows that those that make the parallel are still stuck in an old-school ignorance. Something that was probably instilled by their parents. About as rational as paralleling the belief in Zeus to that of an atheist.

Everyone is an atheist, it's just that some still cling to one last god of their particular choosing because of where and when they were born, and who pounding that particular dogma down their throat.

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