Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

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Nielk1
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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by Nielk1 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:34 am

bigbadbogie wrote:
Nielk1 wrote:You have the right to not have people get up in your face about it, and they don't do that.
I'd say that hearing "'have a blessed day' like every 5 min" on TV is exactly that - getting up in your face about it. Perhaps they won't do so in person, but TV and media probably provides more communication than face-to-face these days anyway.

Perhaps it's just an international difference; in the US, people might be more tolerant of things like that and don't consider them to be as 'in your face' as Australians would.
I was exaggerating about the TV. It's called hyperbole. It's just a sign-off. You hear about male enhancement 20 times more often on TV.

I don't even practice any religion, but I tell you I get mighty pissed off when I see some atheists acting like thugs and destroying religious displays. This, BTW, is something I saw in person and was expected to take part in. I did not.

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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by bigbadbogie » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:14 am

Nielk1 wrote:I don't even practice any religion, but I tell you I get mighty pissed off when I see some atheists acting like thugs and destroying religious displays. This, BTW, is something I saw in person and was expected to take part in. I did not.
Anyone acting like thugs for any reason should piss off everybody.

What exactly happened?
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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by Psychedelic Rhino » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:38 am

If we're linking, here's one of the best 4 minute responses to the unfalsifiable, ...by the master.

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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by Ded10c » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:32 am

bigbadbogie wrote:
Nielk1 wrote:You have the right to not have people get up in your face about it, and they don't do that.
I'd say that hearing "'have a blessed day' like every 5 min" on TV is exactly that - getting up in your face about it. Perhaps they won't do so in person, but TV and media probably provides more communication than face-to-face these days anyway.

Perhaps it's just an international difference; in the US, people might be more tolerant of things like that and don't consider them to be as 'in your face' as Australians would.
That's just a turn of phrase. Just because you're not a Christian doesn't mean you don't say things like "oh, god" or "damnit" or "thank god", right? It's not really that different. He means they don't come around trying to convert you like bloody Jehovah's Witnesses.
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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by MrTwosheds » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:04 pm

I think it's important to remember that there is a big difference between religion, a belief/narrative/philosophical approach and Religion the socially manipulative power structure's created by people. They are not the same thing. People, even those who believe themselves to be good, will always abuse power structures for their own ends. Religions are really no different from political parties, it's just a different flavour of lies. Any belief system that does not constantly update is doomed to usurpation, insanity or oblivion. It seems to me that what has actually happened in the US over the past 25 years or so, is that Religion has simply moved into the moral void left by the endemic corruption of its political system.
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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by Nielk1 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:01 pm

bigbadbogie wrote:
Nielk1 wrote:I don't even practice any religion, but I tell you I get mighty pissed off when I see some atheists acting like thugs and destroying religious displays. This, BTW, is something I saw in person and was expected to take part in. I did not.
Anyone acting like thugs for any reason should piss off everybody.

What exactly happened?
It was socially acceptable... That might explain why I have the views I do.

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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by bigbadbogie » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:57 pm

MrTwosheds wrote:I think it's important to remember that there is a big difference between religion, a belief/narrative/philosophical approach and Religion the socially manipulative power structure's created by people.
I'd say the former is not religion, but philosophy and/or superstition. The latter most definitely is. I think it depends on whether it stems from group-think or an individual's ideas.
Nielk1 wrote:It was socially acceptable... That might explain why I have the views I do.
It wasn't one of those Atheist clubs at a Uni/College, was it? They're a little... hardcore.

It certainly wouldn't be socially acceptable among normal people to vandalise a religious display.
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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by Psychedelic Rhino » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:02 am

I think the choir in this thread has pretty much reached a cognitive absolute pitch. 8-)

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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by MrTwosheds » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:40 am

I'd say the former is not religion, but philosophy and/or superstition. The latter most definitely is. I think it depends on whether it stems from group-think or an individual's ideas.
The former is often practiced by religious people. The latter is unfortunately what almost always happens when people form any sort of organization be it religious or otherwise. Have you ever joined a Union?... :(
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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by Nielk1 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:17 am

bigbadbogie wrote:It wasn't one of those Atheist clubs at a Uni/College, was it? They're a little... hardcore.

It certainly wouldn't be socially acceptable among normal people to vandalise a religious display.
I don't know of any such group at my Uni. There were several colleges under that umbrella though (engineering, medicine, etc) so who knows. This is why I have come to view many atheists and skeptics with ire. The ironic thing about that is that atheists and skeptics that are true to their name are wonderful people, but a bunch of them have become fanatical at a level I've not seen before except with respect to religion.

I feel like this is the same growing attitude that drives the attempts to expel any expression of faith from every facet of life under the pretense that because atheism is not a religion but somehow exists in the same space it is superior.

And on the subject of faith, I feel very awkward around any religious practice. And I feel just as awkward around atheist practices. It's funny. It feels the same.

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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by bigbadbogie » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:36 am

Nielk1 wrote:a bunch of them have become fanatical at a level I've not seen before except with respect to religion.
Fanaticism is an element of humanity. It is not unique to religion. I am fanatical about Battlezone. It is possible to become fanatical about anything.

Make sure to not judge all of Atheism based on the actions of some fanatics. Same with religions. Don't judge all Muslims on the Taliban. Atheism isn't just a single position, it's on a spectrum.

Nielk1 wrote: I feel like this is the same growing attitude that drives the attempts to expel any expression of faith from every facet of life under the pretense that because atheism is not a religion but somehow exists in the same space it is superior.
.
It's not about superiority, but secularism. Secularism is about separating religion from state. The United States was built on that principle. It's why you aren't either living under the rule of the Pope or the Queen of England. It's not about eliminating religion or faith, just keeping it in its place; out of power.
Nielk1 wrote: And on the subject of faith, I feel very awkward around any religious practice. And I feel just as awkward around atheist practices. It's funny. It feels the same.
Probably because Atheism and Religion are two sides of the same coin. It's religion or no religion. Either way, the subject is religion.
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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by Nielk1 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:03 am

bigbadbogie wrote:It's not about superiority, but secularism. Secularism is about separating religion from state. The United States was built on that principle. It's why you aren't either living under the rule of the Pope or the Queen of England. It's not about eliminating religion or faith, just keeping it in its place; out of power.
I would argue it is a feeling of superiority lending to fanaticism. So far of all the religious groups (including atheism) the people I've found that give the least shits about other people's faiths and act kindly the most are Mormons. I have a feeling that it has to do with that they know the whole hat thing is ridiculous to others and have moved beyond that point of pettiness.

(Actually, I might say my Wicken friends are the most personable. Plus I keep the protection broom they gifted my family at the door.)

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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by bigbadbogie » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:12 am

I'd imagine that every religious person believes that their particular religion is the greatest and is superior to all else.

It's all about pride, another human trait. It's not unique to religion or Atheism.

Nationalism, for example, is about pride in one's heritage.
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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by MrTwosheds » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:40 pm

I would argue it is a feeling of superiority lending to fanaticism.
This is likely to happen as a reaction to some sect's insistence on the absolute truth of their very ancient books. There is only so much ludicrous self delusion and bolox talking that ordinary folks can be expected to accept. If a faith insists on stagnating then they will have to put up with causing a response.
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Re: Off-topic (was Battlezone 3 RANT)

Post by Nielk1 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:37 pm

bigbadbogie wrote:I'd imagine that every religious person believes that their particular religion is the greatest and is superior to all else.

It's all about pride, another human trait. It's not unique to religion or Atheism.

Nationalism, for example, is about pride in one's heritage.
It's just my point that there is a such thing as fanatical atheism and it has as much power as it does currently because of its justifications.

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