Battlezone Forums

Heya,

I just found out that bz2-units support bigger textures than 256x256(which look like garbage), so I took the sabre-texture and made it 1024x1024 and added a 200x200 koala on there.



The koala looks kinda sweet, eh?

Yeah and now to my suggestion: Lets make HQ Textures for buildings and units? The koala looks very sharp(?if thats the right word?), means the textures can be HQ.

I will start with the work right now, I'll try my best.

Questions:
-Who could help?
-GSH, would you include these textures in the next patch as soon they are HQ?
-Is it possible to do the same thing with the map-textures?

Viva la Revolution.

The highest resolution that is possible in BZ2 is 2048x4096, as it is the highest resolution which doesn't make the DXTGen crash.

Also, nice Koala. Strange bloody critters.

bigbadbogie wrote:The highest resolution that is possible in BZ2 is 2048x4096, as it is the highest resolution which doesn't make the DXTGen crash.

Okay, but what about maps?

bigbadbogie wrote: Also, nice Koala. Strange bloody critters.

Stay intopic, please

Cyber wrote:

bigbadbogie wrote:The highest resolution that is possible in BZ2 is 2048x4096, as it is the highest resolution which doesn't make the DXTGen crash.

Okay, but what about maps?

bigbadbogie wrote: Also, nice Koala. Strange bloody critters.

Stay intopic, please

That goes for maps as well.

And you put the koala there

Here my first success:
(+using ZA's UEP skins of course!)
Example sabre.

Before (256x256)


After (1024x1024+ZA's UEP skin + some rendering effects, enlarging etc.)

(if you see the red X just ignore it, was just a note to myself and won't appear in the real skin)

Up-scaling algorithm? When you get a good process let us know and I can try to create an automation. Are you using ZA's originals or the UEP's tweaked ones, because I notice some odd things at the lights and I am wondering if that is an up-scaling artifact or something we fixed already.

I was thinking about doing them fresh with shape layers but the metal bits always get me. I can do the orange parts perfectly.

Who could help?
I have done one or two textures up to 1024x1024, I already did ivtank! Not just upscaling though but "detail reconstruction" too.
I would be happy to share stuff with you.

-GSH, would you include these textures in the next patch as soon they are HQ?

The current plan, is to not include (can't include stuff that don't exist) so really we should be aiming for a HQ addon pack, which gives people a choice.

-Is it possible to do the same thing with the map-textures?

Yes, obviously it is best to do so in a restrained manner, because everyone likes their maps to go fast. 512x512 terrain textures are excellent in my opinion.

Gimps upscaling plugin is rather good, but obviously it can't add detail that just isn't there.

The one problem I have, is the lettering on some of the units, I have no idea what font its in, or wether its a font at all. Damn difficult to make it look right when you can barely see it in the first place.

bigbadbogie wrote:The highest resolution that is possible in BZ2 is 2048x4096, as it is the highest resolution which doesn't make the DXTGen crash.

Also, nice Koala. Strange bloody critters.

I once used 4096x4096 while developing maps for vsr, strange thing is it seems the texture is not drawn until it is within 100m or so. It is black and choppy until in range.

the dxtbz2gen may freeze but it will still create the dxtbz2 file, very, very slowly though.

high res textures usually kill framerate cyber, i use all the lowest settings possible (except object detail which is medium) and still max at 60-80 fps in a strat. dm, not so bad.

Nielk1 wrote:Up-scaling algorithm? When you get a good process let us know and I can try to create an automation. Are you using ZA's originals or the UEP's tweaked ones, because I notice some odd things at the lights and I am wondering if that is an up-scaling artifact or something we fixed already.

I was thinking about doing them fresh with shape layers but the metal bits always get me. I can do the orange parts perfectly.

Up-scaling algorithm? - I am using a special program called "Ben Vista Photo Zoom" - it enlarges pictures with almost no quality-loose, trough a mix of blending/completing.

Are you using ZA's originals- Mmh dunno, maybe you post a link with the originals just to be sure (folder is called UEP skins afaik).

I can do the orange parts perfectly.- Great, I will make a plan, you are already registered on the "orange parts"

MrTwosheds wrote:Who could help?
I have done one or two textures up to 1024x1024, I already did ivtank! Not just upscaling though but "detail reconstruction" too.
I would be happy to share stuff with you.

Thats great, as I wrote above I am using a program called "Ben Vista Photo Zoom"- I can't remember if it was free or my dad bought it, but the detail reconstruction is sorta "unnice", maybe we could combine your detail reconstruction & the work of the program to get a proper result.

MrTwosheds wrote:

-GSH, would you include these textures in the next patch as soon they are HQ?

The current plan, is to not include (can't include stuff that don't exist) so really we should be aiming for a HQ addon pack, which gives people a choice.

Yeah, that was my 2nd idea. To be honest I would prefer to have it in stock, so even the users who are not reading forums/ unexperienced users have the feeling of a HQ bz2. @ ZA: We may also include it in VSR?

MrTwosheds wrote: Gimps upscaling plugin is rather good, but obviously it can't add detail that just isn't there.

I guess every upscaling-program is doing this, but I will compare it with Ben Vista Photo Zoom, to see which program is bringing out the better result.

MrTwosheds wrote: The one problem I have, is the lettering on some of the units, I have no idea what font its in, or wether its a font at all. Damn difficult to make it look right when you can barely see it in the first place.

I guess thats one of the smallest problems, we'll find a way to deal with it.

Mortarion wrote:
high res textures usually kill framerate cyber, i use all the lowest settings possible (except object detail which is medium) and still max at 60-80 fps in a strat. dm, not so bad.

I see what you mean, tho its time to upgrade your PC then I dont really think these texture-changes will drop your FPS very much, anyways I would prefer to have a toggle for the texture like "Low, Medium, HQ". (In case of doing adding it to stock.)

So what I gotta do now:
-Find out which program is better for upscaling: Gimp or Ben Vista Photo Zoom ?
-Then, upscale the ISDF units/buildings - textures and the Scion units/buildings - textures to 1024x1024 + some renderring effects (Paint.net)
-Make a short list with:
-Nielk 1 "orange parts"
-MrTwoSheds "detail reconstruction"

Nielk1 wrote:Up-scaling algorithm? When you get a good process let us know and I can try to create an automation. Are you using ZA's originals or the UEP's tweaked ones, because I notice some odd things at the lights and I am wondering if that is an up-scaling artifact or something we fixed already.

I was thinking about doing them fresh with shape layers but the metal bits always get me. I can do the orange parts perfectly.

Not sure what was broken in my originals or how they were fixed. Except maybe some of the parts that used transparency came out pure white in certain situations (never did figure that one out).

Regarding up-scaling algorithms, not sure what would be the best. Bicubic is obviously the easiest one to grab for, but it doesnt usually yield a large improvement for upscaling (that said, testing in-game is probably the best way to compare). Most people who have played ZSNES or any other modern 8-16 bit console emulator has probably heard of the Hqx scaling algorithm. It's quite excellent as it's probably the only algorithm i've seen that keeps the lines clean when upscaling and has high accuracy.

UPDATE: It looks like theres a Paint.NET filter for that.

I once used 4096x4096 while developing maps for vsr

That is a bit big really, I figure most people use 1280 x 1024 screen resolution, so the only people who are actually going to see a full 4098x4098 texture are those with really huge monitors.
Just got to be a bit sensible what sizes you use for what. 512 is ok for terrain detail, use 256 or 128 for layer 0, so hardcore retrogamers can still play on their steam powered pc's.
Units look great with 1024x1024, the high detail does not appear until you get close to it. That's what the dxtbz2 does, very good at being optimal.
I have used 2048x2048 textures for sky domes, because they look better that way, that's the only place I use them at that size.

Mortarion uses HD textures in his maps. The main grass texture and the stone textures on Ancient Outposts are particularly noticable. That said, I think that there's too little payoff for the potential framerate problems it causes if you go too high. For example his other map, Excavation, uses HD textures but they're not very noticable because they're relatively low contrast.

MrTwosheds wrote:The current plan, is to not include (can't include stuff that don't exist) so really we should be aiming for a HQ addon pack, which gives people a choice.

If those who are involved are going to do that and dont mind a bit of extra work, I'd suggest making different size versions so you could pick wich to use on you electrically or steam driven PC

BZ2 doesn't have texture LODing iirc so don't go huge. Unless it is automatic.

Resizing an undetailed low res image just makes it into a more undetailed hi res image. Hope this doesn't fall into that trap.

Like I said if your screen only draws 1024 pixels from top to bottom, there is little point using anything bigger than that. 2048 works for sky domes because you only ever see half of 1 texture at once.
Terrain is more problematic because of the variability of view distance and the number of tiles it needs to draw. 512x 512 seems to work acceptably to me.

dxtbz2 is texture LODing Zax.
But you are right there is no point just resizing an image without adding detail.