Battlezone 2 in retrospect

[Broadside]

Wrong Broadside or however ur name is spelled. Msl scouts are useful in games versus scions; ai missil scout covering is an essential part of the only way which I have found to counter blink warriors during prolonged scion vs isdf games. Sentries are useful in suppressing a pool dominant isdf enemy in early games. As for the lonely lancer, its just a poorly designed pos (sorry to any fan boys but this is completely true). The only reason one may not see these ships used frequently in games is because most people who play strats these days are exactly how appel describes SC2 players. They follow a simple build tree (ug, arm, bay, blast etc.) and lack the experience needed to actually deviate from this path when something foreign pops up.

My original post was pretty lengthy and included a part saying that I havent played enough to know this for sure, but I decided to cut it down a bit. I have never personally seen any of these uses for those units. I should have expressed my inexperience =P Thank you though for the correction! I would like to try out sentries eventually. I just never play scion.

[MrTwosheds]

Lancers can be useful in stock gameplay, ffa scion vs scion, a bunch of wasp lancers can be useful for taking down spire/ jammer defended positions, expensive but a very quick result as they tend to blow the lungs off anything nearby, they run out of ammo straight away, so its just a surprise hit and run strategy.

[Red Spot]

Lancers can be useful in stock gameplay, ffa scion vs scion, a bunch of wasp lancers can be useful for taking down spire/ jammer defended positions, expensive but a very quick result as they tend to blow the lungs off anything nearby, they run out of ammo straight away, so its just a surprise hit and run strategy.

Not if you have a group or Maulers tagging them

[Zero Angel]

Gauss sentries are good in 1v1 as support units vs a superior ISDF dogfighter. They're pretty accurate and deadly even in the hands of the AI. And msl scouts are good all-around vs scions, since Scions cant equip Phantom VIR.

That said, human piloted gauss sentries are rare to see vs Scion coms, probably because most Scion coms find it more lucrative to fast-tech to blink warriors -- the intermediate to arc-gauss being quill-gauss.

[Sly]

The versatility of the warrior is the main downfall of the lancer. Warriors are like nascars, a good driver will constantly be going into the pit in order to change out wheels etc. (in this case its weapons or shields). A morphed quill warrior can easily blink in and out of bases and take anything out. If the enemy switches to something else, like assault units to guard the gts/gs's, then drop sonic and take a rocket tank back to base with you as a souvenir. The drawback with wasp is that the enemy will see and hear it coming a mile away.

p.s. One interesting thing about the lancer though is that in 1.1 you could ghost almost as fast as an isdf empty scout if you had your settings the right way and knew how to work the terrain.

[appel]

There are a lot of aspects in BZ2 that forces the game to be more equal than in other games:

1) Just one of each production facility.
2) Resources flow in at the same rate for both teams.
3) Limited number of units (really just the number of humans) on the field, excluding scavs, rats. etc.
4) Tech tree advances in BZ2 do matter a lot, but aren't a game winner. You still need to work hard for the win, and ammo/health aspect of the game limits your ability to destroy your opponent quickly.
5) Defenders advantage is prime in BZ2. Really, you can almost defend ad infinitum if you know what you're doing. Mcurtain tanks, blast assault tank, can keep any enemy force away. And you as the defender get the scrap from destroyed stuff, so you get the resource advantage. This is a huge balancing thing that I'd really like to see in games like SC2. Even if your opponent is a head, has field control, you still have a fighting chance, and that's why players in BZ2 fight to the last ship even if their base is being owned.

[Sly]

Yeah, I remember a lot of strats in 1.2 where we've fought back blast tanks in our base with chain scouts and eventually built back up to tech. Hovering helped out a lot in these types of games though (no flame war attempt btw).

[M4BHoward]

Even losing games in BZ2 is alright, because you did have some fun.

I totally agree! That's one of the best things about BZ2; it has such a potential for fun, no matter who wins.

[Ded10c]

Played the first MP game I've played in a long time last night, and I thoroughly enjoyed getting my arse handed to me. I can only assume everybody else did too.

[Zero Angel]

Testing that FFA thingy? Yeeeah, we'll get ya into a real strat game yet. If you can't fight well you can still be useful managing scavs and killing extractors. Heck, old ZA used to be a pool boy back when he first started playing in strats, then I got promoted to 'supporting wing man' role and now I can *sometimes* be a team's ace or secondary ace. Believe me, if you can't dogfight even doing pool duty is difficult and not boring knowing that at any time you could die whenever that big scary painted target and the rest of his team start to close in on you.

[Nielk1]

The only reason one may not see these ships used frequently in games is because most people who play strats these days are exactly how appel describes SC2 players. They follow a simple build tree (ug, arm, bay, blast etc.) and lack the experience needed to actually deviate from this path when something foreign pops up.

Good god, I concur with Sly. This is why I stopped bothering with STRAT. Without getting too deep into it I had the same issues with flying, once you figure it out, I got it pretty fast since I have always been the analytical type, its all you do.

[Ded10c]

The only reason one may not see these ships used frequently in games is because most people who play strats these days are exactly how appel describes SC2 players. They follow a simple build tree (ug, arm, bay, blast etc.) and lack the experience needed to actually deviate from this path when something foreign pops up.

Good god, I concur with Sly. This is why I stopped bothering with STRAT. Without getting too deep into it I had the same issues with flying, once you figure it out, I got it pretty fast since I have always been the analytical type, its all you do.

Likewise - when did this happen? What's changed?

[Red Devil]

might be a fix for that...

randomize (in code or via manual selection) the recycler both teams start out with, each having different tech capabilities

i.e., no blast if isdf, no blink if scion, no VIR, etc. mix it up

[Nielk1]

might be a fix for that...

randomize (in code or via manual selection) the recycler both teams start out with, each having different tech capabilities

i.e., no blast if isdf, no blink if scion, no VIR, etc. mix it up

As an option maybe, else outcry.
I gotta get back to Factions, one didn't have factory panels or an armory but instead a variance engine that semi-randomized unit configurations.

[APCs r Evil]

Likewise - when did this happen? What's changed?

I don't think it happened overnight. It's more likely due to the fact there just aren't as many people playing anymore so there aren't as many people who use or even know complex strategies. Because of that newer players are exposed to fewer and fewer strategies and over time it all boils down to a basic strategy that works just fine, most of the time. And since there isn't much incentive to use a different strategy, that one simple and effective strategy becomes the only strategy.

Until someone happens to come along and shake things up a bit, then all hell breaks loose. But then, after a while, everything goes back to normal.

And as for the strategy Sly used as an example, as far as I know that's been pretty much the standard ISDF strategy forever. (With minor variations due to base damage and whatnot, of course.)