AI in Singleplayer

[Semaphore]

Since I hadn't tried the recent patches, I decided for a quick tour of the SP campaign. I'm finding the PB6 AI to be ridiculously tough though, for one particular mission (so far). Perhaps I missed something stupid as I haven't played in a year or two, but after 6 hours of re-running the thirty odd minutes of that mission, I have to call it a day.

I am talking about the mission where you recover the Padishah from the carrier wreckage. It is as far as I have been able to establish impossible to finish.

As you roll out of the dropship, you have very little time to set up. It's barely enough time to build roughly two to three guntowers in the bottleneck area, just above the 2nd scrap pool from your starting position. Alternatively, you get build around six to seven turrets. Take any more time and the Scions will have taken the Padishah beyond your reach. So assuming you wasted no time doing this, secured the crash site and made your tug cross the lava to pick up the wreck of the Padisha's hovercraft, you then have to deal with combat on 2 fronts.


First wave
Homebase: Some Sentries and a spot of Warriors.
Crash site: Some Sentries and a few Scouts.

This still feels normal. My tank and the wing I started out with take a bit of damage. Remember that I still had no time left to build a factory to support the crash site with better tanks, so I still have no more than my starting wing (1 Sabre, 1 Scout) to back me up. The turrets at the home base get a little shot up. If I had build Guntowers instead, they would of course still have been fine.


Second wave
Homebase: Pairs of Maulers and Titans and some Warriors.
Crash site: A section of 4 Warriors + a few Sentires seconds later.

The homebase takes a pounding, but usually still manages (with some notable losses, which would hit me harder if I had opted to build Guntowers instead). At the crash site the Warriors overwhelm me and my already shot up tank and scout. I lose the Tug.


Third wave
Home Base: Pairs of Maulers and Titans and some Warriors.
Crash site: At least one Mauler, possibly more, and more Warriors.

The Homebase sometimes survives if I, during combat, managed to send enough Turrets to the nav points at the bottleneck. Had I gone with Guntowers instead of Turrets, being completely unreplacable for me until I return to the base, they would usually be gone by now. At the crash site I was able to survive the second wave once by sniping a Warrior. That was really the most I could muster up, as the 3rd waves kills even my still fully working Warrior.

The base's defensive line is almost or completely gone, I have lost my 2nd scrap pool every singly time at this point. I still hold one, but by the time I manage to make it back to my base, the recycler is usually close to being destroyed. Either way, the Scions are free to pick up the Padishah at their leisure since the 2nd wave passed.

Third wave, alternative

If I build fewer defences at the home base and get the Tug ready sooner, I have usually a better chance at surviving the 1st wave, and manage to trick/cheat the game by pushing the Tug up the elevated area above the lava, right behind the Scion Base. The Scion units then get stuck trying to reach it, either near the front of the elevated area or within their own base (since my tug is so close to it). I think that is how I used to play this map twelve years ago, before I obtained any real skill and just kept on using exploits. It's the best shot I have at the tug surviving, but as I pointed out it comes at the cost of me getting my defenses in order. It is still the best run because the Tug survives, but the base gets it before wave 3.

~

The bottom line is that the game starts throwing a LOT of advanced units at me before I really become able to mount a proper defense. Maulers vs, at best, a spare Scout. If I forgo defense entirely, rush the factory tree and build some Sabres instead (I never get more than 2 scrap pools), I am usually not able to organise them fast enough from across the battlefield.

So either I am missing some in-the-face kind of aspect about this map, or the PB6 AI throws too much at me. Any clues?

[Zax]

First thing you do is get up on the mountain and kill their recy with mortars etc. This will break the mission script and they will no longer send tugs to reclaim Burns, giving you all the time you need.

[Semaphore]

Well.. I guess that works.

I don't really wish to avert any modders' attention away from anything else anyhow. I guess it just felt good writing down all that mission frustration.

[Ded10c]

If you think it needs fixing, note it down. Of course, bear in mind that 1.3 is primarily for multiplayer - non-urgent singleplayer patching will come later, if at all. Still, make sure you say when something is wrong, or it won't get fixed!

[Semaphore]

Something is definitely wrong, as I don't think any amount of skill will win this mission the normal way anymore. If BZ2 was still a new game with droves of new players, it would be a problem. It's a good game that deserves the attention, but there aren't really enough new players around anymore to warrant immediate fixing. This issues can wait.

[Red Spot]

It is pretty doable. I play it on hard.
Just scrap those turrets and you'll already have an easier time.
(You use 40 scrap on light defences when it takes 50 to build heavy defences, when you are attacked by mostly heavy units.)

Something you might want to try is take the forward (3th) pool using a scav do divert the spire's attention. If timed properly you wont even lose the scav and gain 15(?) scrap from recycling the spire when you get a cons there to build some GTs.

[Red Devil]

Sounds like i got the AIPs about right

[Semaphore]

It is pretty doable. I play it on hard.
Just scrap those turrets and you'll already have an easier time.
(You use 40 scrap on light defences when it takes 50 to build heavy defences, when you are attacked by mostly heavy units.)

Something you might want to try is take the forward (3th) pool using a scav do divert the spire's attention. If timed properly you wont even lose the scav and gain 15(?) scrap from recycling the spire when you get a cons there to build some GTs.

Sorry, but I just don't see how. Not in the time frame you have. I already tried building the maximum amount of GT's and after that I just can't be around to build / replace more. Turrets at least can be replaced without me being there. The Maulers and Titans will eat them alive, but so will a GT against a pair of them, without any repair trucks.

It takes at least 2-3 waves to capture Burns, fight off the waves at the crash site, and push the Tug up the cliff behind the Scion Base (which is still a bit of an exploit). And that's ONLY when I take the fast route, leaving my base defenses incomplete. If I take the longer route, build 3 instead of one GT (or 7 instead of 3 or so Turrets), the Crash site gets overwhelmed instead.

Hm, there is one thing I haven't tried yet. I wonder if taking the proximity of 2nd scrap pool to the Scion base provokes some kind of scripted reaction. Perhaps if I just take 1 pool and let the other scav roam and eat scrap.. maybe then. Braddock did say 'as soon as possible'..

[ADMIRAL MANSON]

Hmm well every patch since 1.2 I have always beat the sp campaigns on hard. I will achieve the same on this patch and tell you guys how I did it when i get the time.

[Purplehaze]

SP is as easy as IA which is as easy as MPI

[sabrebattletank]

Dan Brow in is the MPI of facebook.

[Axeminister]

I have beat this on 1.3 and yes it gets busy. My strategy is to use navs for placing the many turrets at Burns location. You have time to run over there in the very beginning to go there with your starting ships and place about six navs in a row between Burns and the Scion base.
Come back to base and the two scavs you make will have scooped up scrap to get started making turrets. Deploy the scavs, as turrets are being built alternate sending them to the front pool at base and to the six navs at Burns location. Once you have six turrets at Burns location, four turrets at front base pool then make a con and build power, make towers at front pool and stay there to defend. Make power, factory, armory, rocket tank, tug and send rocket tanks to Burns location via the navs. You can do it.

[Semaphore]

Thanks, that worked. I placed navs at both places and managed to let the tug that takes Burns bring a repair truck on arrival. It went well for a short time, until a Mauler reached my tug before I could. I was able to keep on to the base, despite sacrificing defensive units to the repair bay. I have a savegame of the tug just arriving, I will retry it from that point tonight. Maybe I will forgo the repair bay and make an armory, upgrade the turrets. What I really need is effective stopping power against those maulers.

This mission has to rank among the hardest in the game. Hmm.. actually, maybe I should let the tug carry a constructor over the lava. The area is pretty flat, I should be able to build some guntowers there. The recycler *should* hold out just with some turrets until I can come back to rescue it. I'd need to deploy it inside the bottleneck though, with the right side facing the path. It saves me the time of sending one turret at a time across the lava.

I'm getting into this.

[Axeminister]

Sounds like you didn't make the armory, rocket tank, tug. Once the rocket tank gets there he can hold back maulers. The tug can hold the Burns unit and you can send a service truck on a tug later.