MrTwosheds wrote:ZA Looking back now you should realise just how imbalanced and prone to just collapsing straight away the games back in 1.2 where. (not to mention just being AVed).
Actually the only major reason that 1.2 lost popularity was due to AVing. The 1.2 community had its own share of griefers, who would AV the game constantly. One example allegedly was logan/bear who consistently AVed games and caused the 1.2 ST players to migrate to 1.3. The only thing that the 1.2 community really wanted was a fix towards the malicious AV. Even Timevirus himself said that it was all that was really necessary -- though to be honest, finding a good host was a pain in the neck since there were literally only a few active players at any given time who were even capable of hosting a decent game (due to firewalls and such). And whenever I launch 1.2 I am immediately shocked by how awful it looks on a widescreen monitor (due to stretching), as well as that getting tabbed out of the game (e.g. by a popup) can ruin it.
Anyways, we already experienced high respawn heights several 1.3 releases back, and I can say with a good amount of certainty that the majority of people that I played with hated it. I am glad that it was reverted to its current level and I am glad that GSH had the wisdom to listen to the players (not just the ST players) and do that.
Regulators
Regulate any stealin' of this biometal pool, we're damn good, too
But you can't be any geek off the street
Gotta be handy with the chains if you know what I mean
Earn your keep
Red Devil wrote:The real reason some people behave the way they do is to have a virtual sense of being untouchable, most likely brought on by being abandoned, neglected, or abused at home by their parents.
It's probably not a good idea to try and pin a motive on something without any evidence whatsoever. Unless you're a fly on the wall (which you're not), this is just speculation on top of generalisation.
a randomized respawn point in a scout near base might be best, but it would have to compensate for terrain height. "help, i've fallen through the terrain and i can't get up!"
If given the truth, the people can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts - and beer.
Abraham Lincoln
Battlestrat, FE, G66, In The Shadows, Starfleet, Uler, & ZTV
Red Devil wrote:The real reason some people behave the way they do is to have a virtual sense of being untouchable, most likely brought on by being abandoned, neglected, or abused at home by their parents.
It's probably not a good idea to try and pin a motive on something without any evidence whatsoever. Unless you're a fly on the wall (which you're not), this is just speculation on top of generalisation.
Perhaps you're not old enough to understand this, but the world doesnt revolve around 'evidence'. If it would, nothing would ever happen.
In the real world pretty much everything is doen cause of motives, motivation and returning patterns. The last is where the illustrated behaviour falls under and you really dont need any evidence to place this sort of behaviour in its own box.
That the world does not revolve around evidence is obvious to anyone with half a brain. However, to anyone with the other half it is also evidence that speculation doesn't work very well and that generalisations are always wrong.
AHadley wrote:However, to anyone with the other half it is also evidence that speculation doesn't work very well and that generalisations are always wrong.
Read my post again, you may have read it, but you dont seem to understand it.
Anyways, we already experienced high respawn heights several 1.3 releases back, and I can say with a good amount of certainty that the majority of people that I played with hated it.
I'm not disagreeing with you. Just stating my opinion that how it is now has opened a whole new griefing exploit that is actually fairly serious, in that it can be used to completely disable a player or team and basically allow them to make people quit that game. Yes in the strat community it will not be tolerated and so it is unlikely to happen very much. But for the rest of bz2s players it is a serious issue and it needs a fix of some sort that at least gives the victims a chance to get away.
My refusal to be silenced by the griefers pathetic behaviour caused me to become their victim (again), so you don't see me much now in that particular part of the strat community, just like an awful lot of other players... simply because I have no desire at all to spend time in their company.
I used to play with Bear, he was a good player, I don't need to ask why he might have taken up AVing certain games. Same old story over and over again...BZ2pwn00
The Silence continues. The War Of Lies has no end.
Anyways, we already experienced high respawn heights several 1.3 releases back, and I can say with a good amount of certainty that the majority of people that I played with hated it.
I'm not disagreeing with you. Just stating my opinion that how it is now has opened a whole new griefing exploit that is actually fairly serious, in that it can be used to completely disable a player or team and basically allow them to make people quit that game. Yes in the strat community it will not be tolerated and so it is unlikely to happen very much. But for the rest of bz2s players it is a serious issue and it needs a fix of some sort that at least gives the victims a chance to get away.
You mean like the semi-randomized respawn idea that I proposed?
I used to play with Bear, he was a good player, I don't need to ask why he might have taken up AVing certain games. Same old story over and over again...BZ2pwn00
Bear/logan/mtc was one of those players who would often berate and complain on all chat about his team and commander. He wasnt a very likeable fellow for that reason so I can see how he might be a bit of an outcast. Its a typical thing that happens when a noob or intermediate player with a big ego joins a game, runs off by himself and dies, then blames his teammates for not sticking with him.
Last edited by Zero Angel on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regulators
Regulate any stealin' of this biometal pool, we're damn good, too
But you can't be any geek off the street
Gotta be handy with the chains if you know what I mean
Earn your keep
You mean like the semi-randomized respawn policy that I proposed?
An excellent proposal!
Moaning about thugs is obligatory for all commanders
I don't know I wasn't there. But it fits a pattern I have seen over and over again, So if Fulmen does actually quit after all these years...whos next?
The Silence continues. The War Of Lies has no end.
It hasnt been unusual for players to exclaim 'Im done with bz2!' and then come back a few months later.
As far as moaning goes, its not exactly unusual for comms to moan about thugs since coms have a much more difficult job. Thugs though, should not moan about coms a lot when they do not want to take command for themselves or their own teammates teamwork if they themselves arent willing to play as a team and communicate. This is probably the number one thing that grinds my gears in actual ST.
Regulators
Regulate any stealin' of this biometal pool, we're damn good, too
But you can't be any geek off the street
Gotta be handy with the chains if you know what I mean
Earn your keep
Red, you cannot have free ships in strat! Its a crime!
ZA I know that you know and that everyone else who's played bz2 for years knows exactly what/who I am talking about. If I could round em all up we could fill BZ2's games list 10x over with the people trolled and griefed out of this game.
The Silence continues. The War Of Lies has no end.
MrTwosheds wrote:Red, you cannot have free ships in strat! Its a crime!
ZA I know that you know and that everyone else who's played bz2 for years knows exactly what/who I am talking about. If I could round em all up we could fill BZ2's games list 10x over with the people trolled and griefed out of this game.
My experience with people and communities in general is that it doesnt matter as much as you think whether that community is 'nice'. People have their own reasons to join or leave communities other than niceness factor. As an example, i've managed and participated in many communities where the community has welcomed and given most of the new members a really thoughtful greeting but the member did not stick around after posting their introduction topic. I'm not excusing griefing as a behavior that has not reduced the number of players in the community. I am simply saying you are exaggerating.
BZ2 is not a game for everyone. I'm not talking about the community, i'm talking about the format of the game. FPS players dont want to think, RTS players dont want to die. You can try to blame it on the occasional griefing or you can blame it on the 'vet strat, known nicks or leave' policy of the past but the truth is that those who want to play BZ2 because they like the design of the game will stick around and figure out how to deal with the things they don't like (either by developing strategies to combat griefing, or by sticking around and becoming known).
Regulators
Regulate any stealin' of this biometal pool, we're damn good, too
But you can't be any geek off the street
Gotta be handy with the chains if you know what I mean
Earn your keep
passwords, voice verification, kick/no joining are all available to control who is in your game.
If given the truth, the people can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts - and beer.
Abraham Lincoln
Battlestrat, FE, G66, In The Shadows, Starfleet, Uler, & ZTV
Zero Angel wrote:You can try to blame it on the occasional griefing or you can blame it on the 'vet strat, known nicks or leave' policy of the past but the truth is that those who want to play BZ2 because they like the design of the game will stick around and figure out how to deal with the things they don't like (either by developing strategies to combat griefing, or by sticking around and becoming known).
That 'feature' was started to keep the 'true noobs' AND griefers out of the games, those that didnt really want to coordinate with their teammates and just do whatever pleased them (both types fall under that categorie).
Much .. much later on it was used to keep people out that where not 'vet worthy', but that was already a much different community than that that actually started a community.
Zero Angel wrote:the truth is that those who want to play BZ2 because they like the design of the game will stick around and figure out how to deal with the things they don't like (either by developing strategies to combat griefing, or by sticking around and becoming known).
The truth is that most people with any sense of selfrespect will not be caught death in the neighbourhood of someone who's known as a dedicated griefer and in some cases even makes a show of it by posting youtube video's and such. Sticking around means you have to befriend these without morals or values, or find yourself a target, so 2Sheds is pretty spot on in regard to 'this community' that a lot of people left cause of the griefing.
The idea behind the higher respawn height was to give a penalty for death. BZ2 has a death limit, intended to be like BZ1, but that's never been used. The idea of die and be immediately back in the action is a Quake/Unreal-ism, which BZ1/2 is most certainly not. More strategic games like CounterStrike or Battlefield (and similar games) have a respawn timer -- death is NOT a cheap option in those games; seeing a timer count down isn't that much different from seeing the landscape fall into place. Dying in your base was meant to have *exactly* the same respawn height as 1.2 -- no penalty. It was the stupid decisions out in the field or in the enemy base would have a tactical cost. But, hey, FPSers don't seem to want to think.
I guess that if the respawn height had been present in 1.0 -- and other bugs fixed -- then the community would have grown up with it and accepted it as normal. As above, plenty of other games penalize deaths with more than just a slight tick in the score column.
