P.O.C, is just a lot of extra work for BZII modders trying to proof something to a small group of people who could really careless about them in the first place. I did this with an APC hack that to the best of my knowledge was never really acknowledged as P.O.C. Programmers, are really just game mechanics who get off fixing their own new game induced bugs. What many of us would like is Mr. G or Mr. K to please just kindly update the BZII model format to something other then an old obsolete XSI format that nobody else even uses any more; present company excused of course.
As far as patches could it be possible to just fix the current bugs rather then adding new features which just seem to create more new bugs? Also, would it be possible to create some kind of compatibility patch to allow players to play different mods under one version of BZII instead of having multiple installations of the same video game? Honestly, I got lost not long after PB 1.3 came and went, and I've never really caught up with other BZII fans to this day. I still piddle around with BZII, but the fun of actually playing it has all but evaporated.
The modders who create proofs are not the same people who fix the bugs. Scav isn't on the 1.3 private team, he's a public tester just like you are and thus doesn't make the fixes.
Updating BZ2 to use a newer model format would mean significant changes to most parts of the game code. It would probably have somewhat similar effects to trying to add more textures to TRN files; see N1's explanation in that thread if you want detail. Basically, everything would need changing. That would make it a whole new damn game.
Compatibility patches for mods are being worked on, and like MTS said, mostly by Red Devil. Making 1.3 backwards compatible would never work, for various reasons. 1.2 and 1.3 are entirely incompatible.
In the case of a new model format, would it? XSI format is the 'master' format that just gets munged into MSH format. Wouldnt supporting a newer spec of XSI just involve making some changes to the lib that handles the XSI->MSH conversions so that it supports the syntax of the newer XSI formats? If it's all munged into the same thing, then no changes to the main executable should be needed.
Not that I care or anything, i'm just talking theory here.
Zero Angel wrote:In the case of a new model format, would it? XSI format is the 'master' format that just gets munged into MSH format. Wouldnt supporting a newer spec of XSI just involve making some changes to the lib that handles the XSI->MSH conversions so that it supports the syntax of the newer XSI formats? If it's all munged into the same thing, then no changes to the main executable should be needed.
Not that I care or anything, i'm just talking theory here.
That would be step in the right direction for sure if it were possible. I assume that Max also supports exporting the newer versions of Softimage XSI. The current version of XSI is also ASCII text based like the old version 1 that BZII currently uses. What would be involved to modify the BZII engine to make it accept the newer version of XSI? It would be less radical then trying to make it convert a binary type like 3DS. I'm not holding my breath though BZII as cool as it is probably can't handle the addon features of the current XSI. Although I've heard that binary files are easier to convert and are more efficient. Programmers would have to weigh in on that issue though.
Exactly. OM made an exporter for Blender. No work done or needed on my part. That's a win for me and the community as a whole -- it lets people work in parallel.
As I mentioned to you (Klink) on IRC, my current employer is updating the company exporter we use internally, and we've spent ~1500 man-hours (i.e. 8 months) on it. That kind of time would be many years worth of my spare time. Are your models that important that I should drop everything and work on exporters for years? I don't think so. Plus, any work I do would be for 1.3 and 1.3 only. You (Klink) seem to prefer 1.2 for some crazy reason, probably because you can't seem to figure out BZ2DXTGen. Demanding I do work for you and being a stick in the mud about what version doesn't go over well.
Not to mention you wouldn't update the version of XSI used since it would cost $$$ to get the sdks and licensing. You would have to switch to an open source modern format, and converting *every model in the game* to that format would be fun in itself.
I have trouble seeing how a .msh exporter would even work in a regard. What would the ODFs point to?
Zax wrote:I have trouble seeing how a .msh exporter would even work in a regard. What would the ODFs point to?
The MSH. All the entries in the ODF that set geom-scale and add animations to the MSH when its built wouldn't be needed either, just the ones that name what animations to use, since an MSH stores the mesh and the animations with basic names.
None of our models are worth the time it would require GSH to adapt the engine to a new model format; such a significant amount of work is just not feasible. If we can do without it - and the community as a whole has outputted a whole lot more models than just you - then so can you. XSI wasn't exactly cutting-edge back when BZ2 was released. It worked then. It has worked for modders for twelve years. It can work for you as well; you just have to let it.
Just as a point, I don't think I've seen anybody else suggest the engine be updated to a new model format.
You know...your right. Why fix something that ain't broken. Btw, Raxx is taking a break on the XSI exporter due to final exams in school. He said he would resume work after things settle down again. Anim8or, is really cool for making models in general. I'm beginning to like it more then Truespace...imagine that? Cheers.
That would be step in the right direction for sure if it were possible. I assume that Max also supports exporting the newer versions of Softimage XSI. The current version of XSI is also ASCII text based like the old version 1 that BZII currently uses. What would be involved to modify the BZII engine to make it accept the newer version of XSI? It would be less radical then trying to make it convert a binary type like 3DS. I'm not holding my breath though BZII as cool as it is probably can't handle the addon features of the current XSI. Although I've heard that binary files are easier to convert and are more efficient. Programmers would have to weigh in on that issue though.
