Battlezone Forums

Feenix wrote:Bummer, I never realized that the Scions had such a disadvantage in 1.3? It does sound like some balance issues need to be made

They don't have a disadvantage, just a vastly different playstyle. Scions can build their base on less pools, but ISDF, with a single red pool, can churn out an indefinate stream of combat-ready ships (chain empties), which makes for decent balance. When you get into the intricacies of it, the advantage sways from ISDF to scion and back again through the stages of the game (opening, early, mid, late, end). Overall, though, if two good players command each side, there is no stage of the game that is *so* one-sided that it's unrecoverable, and ultimately, in the very end game, ISDF have a very, very slight advantage. Note that this is with the scion empty recycling.

Balance issues do not 'need to be made' in my opinion. I've played a hell of a lot of battlezone2, and with the advent of assault blast cannons on walkers in 1.3 (along with some other changes - acid cloud doing massive damage to medium armour, mortars having their velocity capped so that ISDF can't M-curtain mortars from base to base, reconfiguring ships via control panel disabled, etc), 1.3 is wonderfully well balanced. It's one of the most balanced strategy games I play, in fact, and that's saying something when I've been a semi-pro player in warcraft 3, supreme commander, starcraft, starcraft 2, ruse, and many others.

Bottom-line: 1.3 balance between ISDF and scions is fine. It's perfect. *If* the players know what they're doing. Often, though, the ISDF commander plays the game as though he's fighting against another ISDF team, and thus loses woefully as soon as blink hits the field. Tip: Don't build sabres against scions. Get a quick armoury, rush M-curtains and raid the scion base, then rush to build 1 walker, and finally pump out constant rocket tanks. Keep the walker in your base - if you lose it, ISDF lose the match. If you keep it, get a few trucks, be happy to sit in your base, get trucks, every time you grab a pool, get another rocket tank, and eventually you'll have enough to push the scion base.

i put the balancing as the scions have more expensive things, but once you get them you own the floor. isdf has less expensive things but you need more than 2 units to destroy an average base. i do agree with darkfox though, i have never thought of it that way. good stategy btw

this whole thread is epic fail! seriously!

Stop complaining about scrap management, its always the wussie cry babies that whine and cry and end up getting the game completely NERFED. STFU already and learn to actually play and adapt!

Balancing is not and likely never willl be an issue.

I would say isdf and scion are perfectly balanced in 1.3

The Skill of a player is deciding. And all the newbies who say "scion suck" doesnt know how to work with them.
However, I can play with both races but prefer ISDF.

Bottom line: The team that plays better will win.

That's good balance.

I agree with everything DarkFox said and I agree with everything Cyber said and thank you for protecting me guys !

Yeah it does seem like i am the lone guy against scout canceling. To build scrap.
I don't know why if you think the game is so unfair against the scion with out it that you don't give the scion default scout stasis shield to start with as well. That would even the odds. Or take away the FAF & solar flare from both scouts so each side only get's an empty till they can spend the 50 scrap that's a way better idea too than impossible scrap builds.
At very least i should have the option to turn off that feature where the commander can cancel building empty scouts as a host.

I don't think it should be there, but I do think that now is definately not the time to remove it. Removing it would mean we would need to rebalance the whole game. Our time is better spent fixing other things.

I think most can agree that this is a tactic that shouldn't belong in the game as a necessity. That's like having the popcorn button on the microwave unlabeled, but requiring you to use the popcorn button to cook it right. Sure, you can enter numbers to pop it but that is less convenient way, and somebody who knows about the hidden popcorn button can have his popcorn faster than the one that doesn't.

Our real problem is that we do not currently have a suitable replacement for it, as Ahadley suggests. This is something that should be looked at, but now isn't the best time.

However. Feel free to provide assets that you think fix this issue and help restore Scion balance in the process. These assets can be created as a Recycler Variant and if so tested to be correct, can be shifted into the primary asset pool. Even if only found as a preference to a subset of players, they *might* (not up to me) be included in 1.3 at a future date as a Rec Variant.

Are, the mostly useless Scion weapons a part of this "perfect" balance? would altering resin, poppers, multilock/wasp or seekers so that they were actually worth using, upset this balance too? would tweaking lancer physics be a bad idea, because in the perfect BZ2 nobody should ever use it...

MrTwosheds wrote:Are, the mostly useless Scion weapons a part of this "perfect" balance? would altering resin, poppers, multilock/wasp or seekers so that they were actually worth using, upset this balance too? would tweaking lancer physics be a bad idea, because in the perfect BZ2 nobody should ever use it...

A good RTS is defined by how many choices you have, a great RTS is defined by equal weight put on all of those choices.

Killer AK wrote:At very least i should have the option to turn off that feature where the commander can cancel building empty scouts as a host.

I'm pretty sure there are already one or two rec variants that remove Empty Scouts from the rec build options.

MrTwosheds wrote:Are, the mostly useless Scion weapons a part of this "perfect" balance? would altering resin, poppers, multilock/wasp or seekers so that they were actually worth using, upset this balance too? would tweaking lancer physics be a bad idea, because in the perfect BZ2 nobody should ever use it...

WASPS are pretty cool in Battlezone 1 they are used all the time.