BZ2 1.3.6.4b patch - OPEN BETA & TESTING

[MrTwosheds]

I think the spawn height thing should be looked at, as it is a griefer can completely prevent a player from doing anything at all, even typing. It needs to go back up out of weapon range so the pilot at least has a chance to get away. Strat players will just have to live with the short delay to their high intensity combat.

[Zero Angel]

I thought respawn height was determined by the DLL, so it is then possible to set that logic to only affect the MPI DLL. Anyways, better to just give respawned player pilots a few seconds of invincibility. It would help in the situations where players are spawn killed, even unintentionally (like when mortar bikes are hitting rec, or acid cloud is deployed in the player's base as part of a base assault).

[Zero Angel]

Dark_Seraphim reports on the IRC that the upgrade bug is still present on IA and single player missions.

[Ace367]

Upgrade works fine for mine.

[Zero Angel]

He/she may not have updated to the 6.4b release properly then. It's just something to keep an eye out for I guess.

[MrTwosheds]

I thought respawn height was determined by the DLL, so it is then possible to set that logic to only affect the MPI DLL.

My one and only experience of being deliberately and repeatedly spawn killed was in a strat. It went on for about 5 mins, the only way out of it would be to shutdown bz2, I couldn't even type BAN THEM! to the host because the input screen disappears every time you die. Ask Sly and Vearie to test it with you sometime if you want to see why I think its a problem that really needs to be fixed.
It isn't just MPI that gets griefed.
Yes I just waited until they stopped. Yes it was actually quite funny... No I still didn't lose, the other player quit, forever as far as I know.
The point is that you were not able to do this prior to some recent changes. It is a case of a fix having unforeseen consequences.

[Red Spot]

(a smart or moderately observant commander would notice suspicious activity quickly)

We all know that the obvious targets are not very observant commanders and often the youngest within the community, besides that, you basicly say the comm would be required to stay near the base when they have joiners, if that is the case, why would you even give away command?

[Zero Angel]

My one and only experience of being deliberately and repeatedly spawn killed was in a strat. It went on for about 5 mins, the only way out of it would be to shutdown bz2, I couldn't even type BAN THEM! to the host because the input screen disappears every time you die.

That would be the host's fault for not kicking misbehaving players. It's pretty easy to tell when someone is being spawn killed.

[Zero Angel]

(a smart or moderately observant commander would notice suspicious activity quickly)

We all know that the obvious targets are not very observant commanders and often the youngest within the community, besides that, you basicly say the comm would be required to stay near the base when they have joiners, if that is the case, why would you even give away command?

You're probably right about most of them not being observant.

As to keeping an eye on what thugs are doing, and with all-due respect it doesnt sound like you've had much experience with the thug rec variant. I have. Commander still contends with most of the enemy force even after both of the thug coms have established their bases. It's not 'giving away command', like giving the players their own little outpost so they don't have to run back to base for pods all the time.

Furthermore, i'm fairly certain that over 50% of MPI commanders command from a relay bunker; and at over 50% of those that do not, spend most of their time in the base area. So it's not exactly hard to see when something shady is going on, especially if a thug con just 'happens' to be in the area of some recently lost buildings. Please realize that it's also up to players to watch out for themselves, just like it's up to every human being not to let themselves be duped by scams and tricks. If you make a mistake like using a recycler variant with a feature that can clearly be misused then make sure that it's being used properly or kick/ban the offending players. Making the commander's recycler building on that variant undemolishable is a quick and dirty hack that allows individual games that have been marked by griefers to at least be 'salvagable' and has no repercussions (if you're desperate enough to demo your rec, just ask the host to end the game, as I assume you're all cooperating).

[Red Spot]

and with all-due respect it doesnt sound like you've had much experience with the thug rec variant.

It doesnt make any difference wether I may or may not know the Thug recy as it doesnt change anything.
Wether you use Thug, GH, Commando or even a VSR recy should not matter, people that grief should simply be removed from this game. Seeing how often this happens to specific type of players, and always with similair methods, it is likelly one of the biggest contributors to this community slowly drying up.
That 'some' dont care for MPI or whatever gamemode but their prefered gamemode is nice, but if they crap all over the rest of the community people will not join them either, so they even damage their own game(mode).

But I am done with this topic, each and every one of us that has been around for a decade or more knows exactly what I am talking about, still it seems none wishes to notice it or act upon it.
I honostly dont know whats worse, griefing children or standing by and allowing it to happen (I wont even mention what I think of defending such behaviour).

[Ded10c]

Suggestion.

Selecting the "Thug Recycler" variants presents a warning which informs the host that the variant leaves them open to griefing and that they should keep their eyes peeled.

[General BlackDragon]

Naw, that'd be ...annoying

[Ded10c]

"Do not show this message again", perhaps?

[MrTwosheds]

That would be the host's fault for not kicking misbehaving players. It's pretty easy to tell when someone is being spawn killed.

I had a chat with the host before this happened, he bought bz2 when it first came out, but never really played it online much. He had found his CD and recalled what an excellent game it was and was actually very surprised to still find people playing it.This was his first strat in like 10 years... I had promised to be "nice" and make a game of it, had I wanted to destroy his recy with my starting turrets like some do, I could have, but I like to welcome new players and let them have some fun. He could not really be expected to be fully up to speed on what goes on in BZ2.
Saying that its his fault that 2 veteran players are in the habit of deliberately attempting to ruin or end other peoples games is not remotely reasonable and he would certainly have no idea why my thug had teamed up with his thug in order to do it. Like any newb with brains he took advantage of it and built a lot of maulers to attack me with. After the two thugs got bored of spawn killing MrTwosheds, they left and I actually had one of the best defensive battles I have had for years But then he quit too
Clearly though the plan had been to force me to quit that game, but I just went and made a cup of tea and waited for them to stop doing it
No ZA the Fault lies with the pathetically over inflated ego's, of people who want to dominate a computer game and its community the only way they can, by ruining it for everyone else who isn't like them or won't accept what they do.
I just cannot really understand how such "spoilt 6 year old" type behaviour can still exist in grown men.

honostly dont know whats worse, griefing children or standing by and allowing it to happen

I have also observed what happens when a child is discovered playing BZ2. It sickens me.

[Nielk1]

You know that once every single thing they can do is patched out, the few people still playing the game will have to deal with fake patches and mods that will add exploitative material such as server vars tied to displaying interface elements on clients or downright dangerous missions DLLs. If you fix that, then mods no longer exist.

The experience has to be annoying for the trolls, no one else.