Complaints about pb6.x (split)

[Fulmen]

Bleh, I meant collision warp. I get the two mixed up sometimes. Server won't get collision warp, I didn't test for serverside blink.

Server shouldn't experience any kind of warp when blinking, yet since b89 he does. On a side-note, I really don't understand why things were changed so much since 5.1. Back then the game was actually stable and quite warp-free. The network code or whatever the appropriate thing's called should be reverted to that. Same goes for that gamespy network thing, since the older one that pre-pb6 versions use is still supported. The one since pb6 is laggy in the shell and non-existent sessions take forever to disappear from the list.

Also btw, those logs I uploaded don't have "battlezone.log". RD told me it's the chatlogs so I uploaded those.

[Commando]

Server shouldn't experience any kind of warp when blinking, yet since b89 he does. On a side-note, I really don't understand why things were changed so much since 5.1. Back then the game was actually stable and quite warp-free. The network code or whatever the appropriate thing's called should be reverted to that. Same goes for that gamespy network thing, since the older one that pre-pb6 versions use is still supported. The one since pb6 is laggy in the shell and non-existent sessions take forever to disappear from the list.

Bz2 was updated to use the latest version of the gamespy protocol for two reasons.

1. Gamespy went down for a week, only the protocol that 5.1 and older used was affected. Bz2 was updated so it would be less likely to lose support since it uses the same protocol as newer games such as Borderlands and Operation Flashpoint.

2. In the chat room, we got tired of "How do I host a game?" questions. We aren't here to teach people how to use THEIR equipment.

This update was released to address the two points above. I agree that the sessions taking a while to disappear is annoying. It is only a factor, if the host isn't forwarding ports manually, as far as I am aware. If a host is competent, it is a non-issue. Chances are, if the ping shows up as NA, the host is either lazy or incompetent since that is in indicator NAT-Negotiation is being used vs. ports being forwarded.

[Fulmen]

If you didn't crash, battlezone.log won't be needed.

I crashed once when the game ended but I don't have the log for that.

Bz2 was updated to use the latest version of the gamespy protocol for two reasons.

1. Gamespy went down for a week, only the protocol that 5.1 and older used was affected. Bz2 was updated so it would be less likely to lose support since it uses the same protocol as newer games such as Borderlands and Operation Flashpoint.

2. In the chat room, we got tired of "How do I host a game?" questions. We aren't here to teach people how to use THEIR equipment.

This update was released to address the two points above. I agree that the sessions taking a while to disappear is annoying. It is only a factor, if the host isn't forwarding ports manually, as far as I am aware. If a host is competent, it is a non-issue. Chances are, if the ping shows up as NA, the host is either lazy or incompetent since that is in indicator NAT-Negotiation is being used vs. ports being forwarded.

From what I've seen most people could host fine before pb6, even without forwarding the ports. And most of the time when they couldn't host all they needed to do was forward the ports and voilà, it worked.

For myself and most stratters I know, pb6 & pb6.1 have been serious downgrades from 5.1. Since pb6 many are having problems joining some hosts and the ping for many games is "???".

But I guess it's not worth the time to complain about this, since the new GS protocol is most likely going to stay in future versions of 1.3.

[Zax]

I couldn't host in earlier builds.

And I couldn't forward the ports either since I had no router access.

That one reason caused problems for 25% of the playing population.

[Commando]

From what I've seen most people could host fine before pb6, even without forwarding the ports. And most of the time when they couldn't host all they needed to do was forward the ports and voilà, it worked.

Most of the stratters knew how to do that, but we got a lot of questions in the chatroom asking how to host. Just because stratters have some general networking knowledge, doesn't mean a majority of the community does, especially for new members. Believe me, we got the question a lot. I didn't account for Zax's situation. If you don't have the ports forwarded and have no access to the router, you rely on NAT Negotiation which only PB6+ provide.

[Zax]

Bottom line: Would you be expected to forward ports before playing online COD:MW2?

[Fulmen]

Bottom line: Would you be expected to forward ports before playing online COD:MW2?

No, because CoD:MW2 is not a 12 year old game.

[Commando]

The sad truth behind the pb6+ instability, if we had active tester participation, most of these bugs may have been ironed out. Sadly, the only time these builds get tested, is after a public release. I'm not going to lie, my participation has been lacking over the last 2.5 years.

[Zax]

Bottom line: Would you be expected to forward ports before playing online COD:MW2?

No, because CoD:MW2 is not a 12 year old game.

We shouldn't be expected to go through extra hoops to play the game we bought is what I was getting at. Port forwarding was a sad, miserable time period in PC gaming's history.

[Fulmen]

The sad truth behind the pb6+ instability, if we had active tester participation, most of these bugs may have been ironed out. Sadly, the only time these builds get tested, is after a public release. I'm not going to lie, my participation has been lacking over the last 2.5 years.

Maybe the remaining active players in 1.3 (read: stratters) would be more inclined to volunteer for testing if the modders here at matesfamily wouldn't hate and ignore them so much.

We shouldn't be expected to go through extra hoops to play the game we bought is what I was getting at. Port forwarding was a sad, miserable time period in PC gaming's history.

A lot of old games require port forwarding anyway. It's nearly the norm. Unless one lacks common sense, he or she should realize that old games don't have all the technical luxuries of newer games. I'd rather have a stable working patch where 25% of the players can't host but will play and join games anyway because at least the game's stable and therefore enjoyable, than a patch where the price for giving 95% of the players the ability to host is that of insane instability, warp and lag-outs that ruin countless games causing most of the active players to leave the game, many permanently.

If you'd actually play the game, Zax, you'd know that we managed to largely revive 1.3 strats and active playing a lot in TA5 and 5.1. pb6 was a flop which damaged the playing community quite a bit, but 6.1's been the killing blow it seems. I haven't had a single proper 5v5 strat in 6.1, where as in TA5 it was common. In fact, ever since 6.1 I've rarely even seen full MPI games anymore. Now that if anything is the writing on the wall for BZ2.

[Ded10c]

And of course, it couldn't be anything except 1.3 that causes a lack of players, could it? Never mind that the fact that this game is 12 years old. Never mind that means that everybody who bought the game when it came out has ended their childhood already. Never mind jobs. Never mind the mess the community is in. No, it's the fact that there are people who still care about the game enough to keep working on it,

[Fulmen]

I never blamed all of 1.3. I'm blaming 1.3pb6 and more specifically 6.1 for radically increasing the speed at which BZ2 is dying. TA5 was fine.

[Ded10c]

TA5 clearly wasn't fine when Gamespy shut the protocol down.

[Red Devil]

one of the reasons you are seeing problems is that some players are pulling their ethernet plugs to induce packet loss which, while providing good logs for analysis, tends to throw things out of whack for a bit and produce an advantage for them. it creates MW lag, warp, and general unpleasantness until things get back in sync, which is rather quickly now.

as for bad feelings, i have found that if i respond in kind to derogatory comments, the other person tends to do the same, and so on, ad infinitum. so, we can choose to not make them in the first place and, if anyone else makes them, ignore them and carry on. otherwise, all we do is create one big swirly and down the tubes the conversation goes.

on another note, after playing both with and against you yesterday, Fulmen, i've just gotta say that you are a very good player.

[Fulmen]

TA5 clearly wasn't fine when Gamespy shut the protocol down.

True, but the protocol was quickly restored.

one of the reasons you are seeing problems is that some players are pulling their ethernet plugs to induce packet loss which, while providing good logs for analysis, tends to throw things out of whack for a bit and produce an advantage for them. it creates MW lag, warp, and general unpleasantness until things get back in sync, which is rather quickly now.

You mean they're doing this to deliberately create a gameplay advantage for themselves? If so, I seriously doubt it. Stuff similar to that, like intentionally downloading something to make your ping enormous, effectively making you unhittable, used to happen very rarely in 1.2. But it was so rare already back then that with the current much smaller player base I'm 99% sure no-one is doing that anymore, especially not in 1.3.

on another note, after playing both with and against you yesterday, Fulmen, i've just gotta say that you are a very good player.

Thanks.