BZ2 1.3.6.4b patch - OPEN BETA & TESTING

[Nielk1]

The ability to do something is NOT A BUG.
The trolls want features removed or damaged so they are no longer fun to play.
They want to kill MPI.

The way to fight griefers is not to remove features, the way to fight them is to identify them and remove them. Banning from a GUI is the best option since it removes their ability to **** with anything. Education of players is best.

Some people might not find this palatable but the truth is that it would be better to remove these individuals from play rather than to proof the game against their actions.

You don't child proof something like this, you remove the children.

[Zero Angel]

From a practical point of view, when does a commander ever need to have his recycler demolished by his subordinate. I thought the whole point of being a commander was that you could do it yourself if necessary. Is it really that big of a deal to add 'CanDemolish=0' to one recycler in a single rec variant until a better solution is implemented?

When does a player ever need to snipe an ally when friendly fire protection is enabled? I thought the whole idea behind enabling friendly fire protection was to give people an option not to get killed by their ally. Or was this a feature that people want? The ability to get sniped by your ally even though you have clearly disabled death by any other means.

[Nielk1]

Politics works the same way. Remove all the sensibly removable things, and it just creeps on.

[MrTwosheds]

Most of us never really wanted the friendly fire setting to start with. I always used to enjoy it when games turned farcical and you ended up shooting at each other instead of the enemy It was fun, it was not griefing. The MP game is about teamwork and the failure to teamwork.The problem is having people around who simply just want to spoil the games of others players for their own selfish and irrational reasons. If we fix one thing they'll just go and find another, like spawn killing.
Remember that strat game I was playing with the newly returned old strat player, griefers? the one where you both came in, one on each team and both just spawn killed me for about 5 minutes or so...Well it did give him the chance to build his forces against me, but I managed to hold off his 10 mauler rush anyway after you both left and then he just quit... Well I never saw him again, I guess he figured that there was just no point in returning to this great old game when there are people deliberately doing things like that in his first game in 10 years.

[Red Spot]

There isn't really a such thing as an "MPI Troll". There are people who troll MPIs, which are normally "Strat Trolls". The warped agenda of such individuals is to claim that those playing MPI are going to join a STRAT game one day and ruin it by being awful. Pretty stupid isn't it? Yet they use that as the explanation for their operations.

That used to be the story, they eventually admitted they simply do it cause they get bored and kind get a strat going.

...before you accuse people of doing things for X reasons, you had better get some damn good evidence

You're admin on a board where all the 'evidence' needed is available.

[Zero Angel]

...before you accuse people of doing things for X reasons, you had better get some damn good evidence

You're admin on a board where all the 'evidence' needed is available.

None of it would be in admissible in court (if we're using that as a benchmark). Unless I had a guy openly admitting to griefing games or had a positive IP match compared against that board's membership database than I can't say exactly who it is based on what I read on a message board, all I could do is point fingers and maybe be wrong about it.

All I really know is that none of those IPs match any of your 'usual' suspects because I already checked them.

[Red Spot]

So it would hold up in court as I can easilly provide the IP data you refer to and the guys I am aiming at have openly admitted what I previously stated.

[Ded10c]

- Theft is committed
- Random guy admits to having stolen something in the past
- Random guy must therefore be guilty of this theft

That just about sums up your logic here, RS.

[Red Spot]

Ahab, you could not be more wrong. Seeing you're present in just about any topic on this forum and BZ2Maps you 'should' know better.

To humor you:
- Theft is committed and witnessed
- Thief admits to having stolen what has been stolen
- Witness can provide proof of thief stealing what has been stolen

You're great at taking things out of context though.

[Spawn]

On a forum its easily possible to use a proxy, any proxy, so it would be a little bit more like this:

- Theft is committed and witnessed
- Shapeshifter frames thief
- Thief admits to having stolen what has been stolen
- Witness can provide proof of thief stealing what has been stolen

[Zero Angel]

Using proxies to visit the forum meets my 'up to no good' criteria, and in fact may be a bannable offense. I have not noticed anyone using proxies, or if they do then they either guest posting (chat and the feedback subforum are the only ones that allow guest posting) or using the same IP consistently which is unlikely for most public proxies.

Also, the chance of bein able to get the same IP as someone else while using a proxy is unlikely unless the two people are sharing the same proxying service and just happen to get the same IP (also unlikely, unless maybe they are really trying to get the same IP)

[MrTwosheds]

...before you accuse people of doing things for X reasons, you had better get some damn good evidence

No names have been mentioned as far as I can see. (other that those being impersonated!) All we are doing is offering advice to those who find they need to protect their games. Taking the IP's from here is a bad idea, victims really need to firmly identify the culprit in game and take what ever measures they wish to. Using peerblock to prevent proxy use in game is probably something every host should consider doing, as there is no good reason for the use of proxies in bz2 either. Range banning entire ISP's as well is probably just something those of us who know that we are going to be targeted need to do.

[Zero Angel]

I am simply taking offense to Nielk1's insinuation that all of the vets, or even a sizable majority of them are plotting the downfall of the MPI community or trying to push some agenda of griefing people so that they stop playing MPI and start playing ST. Wraung. Griefers do it for kicks.

And as for the rest of the strat community, truth is most don't care. MPI is an entirely different world than ST. Most don't even visit this forum; its like an entirely different country or world to them, heck most don't even visit bz2maps on a regular basis and if they do than they rarely ever post; but they will happily join teamspeak to actually participate in games. So for the majority, caring about MPI players getting griefed in a different version is like deciding whether to care or not what goes on in Libya or Chechnya.

[Red Spot]

I am simply taking offense to Nielk1's insinuation that all of the vets, or even a sizable majority of them are plotting the downfall of the MPI community or trying to push some agenda of griefing people so that they stop playing MPI and start playing ST. Wraung. Griefers do it for kicks.

Correct, its mostly done by just a few, not even a hand full (for the diehards).
One in particular likes to post this 'evidence' on his youtube account, which is why I am even surprised people dare to talk about evidence.

[Zero Angel]

Not really. For evidence i'm talking about this latest batch of griefing. Lets say, i'm a crown prosecutor and my job is to try convict someone accused of stealing. I can present evidence that he stole in the past several times and maybe even that he has not reformed and still has ties to underground organizations. This is typically not enough for the judge to convict the defendant, instead I must prove that he was responsible for this particular crime by presenting tangible evidence that ties him to this particular crime.