A few problems and questions about 1.5

[ssuser]

First, my problems.
Running under winXP SP3.

First, I am getting some kind of path problem with the zfs files. BZ 1.5 is not loading all
assets from the zfs files. When I loaded anything with names or sprites from TRO stuff, names
would not show and trying to use weapons needing gpuff.map would crash the game. I had to use
unzfs on the bzone151.zfs and bzsw.zfs and put the name/sprite assets in the addon for this stuff
to work. It does load other assets like planet and skin textures though. What could cause this?
I HOPE I don't have to have large assets installed - don't want it.

When I installed I replaced assets in the main bz folder, I hope this is right.

I have the latest patch, 1.5.2.13 and this would not load assets like the new build files for
alien buildings from bzone152.zfs, and since there is no zix patch for this, maybe someone can
tell me what to alter for this zfs file, but I can't figure out what the other problem is,
which crops up under 1.5.2.6 as well, and that DOES have zix files built for it.

Also under 1.5.2.13, for any alien relic with a large INF file like for the Splinter or
Phantom VIR, I see a text box smeared all the way across the screen with only a few words in it
whenever I hit the I key to identify it. Since I can see that the objective text box now
automatically resizes to fit the text maybe these old INF files are badly formatted; they
never did display right anyway on the low resolutions.

Next, some generic questions and suggestions for 1.5:

Regarding names, I see that in the edit/build menu list, ANY name can now be displayed for an
object. So, question for UltraKen: are we going to be able to freely name objects as we wish
in future patches? This does not work for in-game objects now, at least for me.

Also, would it be possible to have a flag in the options section to allow 1.5 to use the
default 1.4 unit behavior? Don't get me wrong, I love the tougher enemy fighters and tanks,
but some IA missions, which were built with extreme AIPs just because 1.4 enemy units
were weak, are now overwhelming. I am thinking especially of some convoy-to-the-base type
missions, with the new AI the enemy forces tasked to jump these en route pretty much wipe
out the convoy, 1.4 type play would keep these missions viable.

Another thing the new unit behavior does is to make turrets largely useless - they have
always been weak, but a few could hold a scrap field against light enemy forces before.
Not now - one fighter will melt down a turret like that. Also the relentless attacks on
scavengers is like the action in BZ2 - but BZ1 scavengers are not nearly as strong as
the BZ2 scavengers are - these are some gameplay balances to consider. It is no good to
add in BZ2 type behavior if there are no counterbalances - BZ1 has no starting grace
period, bad turrets, and only 10 offensive units and 10 gun towers, and scavs are slow
compared to BZ2 scavs because they have to go back to the recycler to drop off.
Gun towers are not so strong against 1.5 unit AI either.

The friendly fire elimination is good in some ways, but bad in others - most specifically
because the player CANNOT destroy his own units when necessary, as he can in BZ2. UltraKen,
can you implement this in somehow? I often like to eliminate extra GT when abandoning a
temporary outpost by shooting them down, or coming back later to do it - recycling, as
is necessary right now, takes WAY too much time on an intense map. It is also necessary
sometimes to kill disobedient units. While playing Omega Squadron, on the Enceladus map,
I built the BDog MUF, which is very slow (this should be fixed for 1.5) and it fell into
a shallow pit which any normal unit could jump out of and just stuck there. I could not
get it to come out, and could not destroy it. I had to restart the mission. This is not
an isolated event either - I often kill stupid scavengers that block GT fire when a
heavy attack wave is coming in, there may just be no time to do something else.

This applies even more so to silos - it saves much time to destroy an unneeded friendly silo
yourself instead of making a constructor go back and recycle it - if the constructor would
even make it there, considering how the 1.5 AI behaves. Plus, doing it this way means you
just might not get the time to exploit that next scrap field with your new silo.

You could add a bailout option for units as BZ2 has but this would not address buildings/GTs.
Much better to allow the player to destroy his own units/buildings, or if that is too hard
to do maybe at least have a flag allowing friendly fire damage to be turned on or off.

I am guessing that some of this has been implemented due to requests of ppl playing MPI
games, but changing the core game for one special variant can break it in other ways, ideally
the new stuff can be left in while 1.4 style play can still exist for use with the large
quantity of older maps of all types still around. Since your original stated intent was to
keep BZ1 playable on modern systems with 1.5 I hope you will take these points seriously.

If there is a serious rift over this maybe a separate exe could be built with the new
goodies left in but with the 1.4 AI , and the program could have multiplayer disabled,
like the editor for BZ2.

And, is there a COMPLETE list of all changes implemented in BZ 1.5 somewhere? I have looked
thru the changelogs of course, but one example is that after looking at the maps in Goomba's
maproom I "discovered" that you can now run maps from subfolders like in BZ2. I do not see
this listed in the changelogs for 1.5.2.6 or 1.5.2.13 - a full changelog stuck up somewhere
on videoventure.org would be nice, covering every change from the first patch.

[GSH]

Post linking to a pirated BZ1 removed.

-- GSH

[Sporkinator]

GSH, by that logic BZ2 is also pirated material. Hypocrisy. It's not very nice of you to talk about Ken's work that way.

Anyway, just Google search "Battlezone" and you'll find us, ssuser. Install that and the game will run properly. Patching manually is complicated and it's easy to do it incorrectly. After installing that, you can upgrade to 1.5.2 if you're not worried about multiplayer. Multiplayer currently uses 1.5.1.17. A proper install will fix the ZFS problems you are having.

Yes, the turrets are quite weak against AI dodging line of sight and shots, but the 1.5.2 assets (bzone152.zfs) address that thanks to my suggestion here: http://www.battlezone1.org/improved-tur ... t3126.html

Here's a video to go with it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAbh-hbdByI

Friendly fire disabled? Raise your difficulty to medium, hard, or very hard. The game is still easy enough on very hard anyway.

Basically, the turrets get a faster turning rate and twice as much firepower, making them capable of shredding an AI enemy or two before they get eliminated. The next time we upgrade the community to a new version, the turrets will be much more effective, good enough for a basic defense.

Just a suggestion ssuser, but you should go to the Battlezone Community Forums in the future for all your BZ1 needs. The community here really doesn't support Battlezone at all, only its sequel.

[General BlackDragon]

Why is it so hard to understand that: A full stand alone copy of the game being downloaded = illegal, while a version that requires the CD install is not?

It's just one simple little rule, don't link to the download. You can talk about it, discuss it, argue about it, post pictures of it, tweet about it, whatever you like. But links should not be posted publicly.

Simple?

[Ded10c]

GSH, by that logic BZ2 is also pirated material. Hypocrisy. It's not very nice of you to talk about Ken's work that way.

...

Just a suggestion ssuser, but you should go to the Battlezone Community Forums in the future for all your BZ1 needs. The community here really doesn't support Battlezone at all, only its sequel.

He means the installer, Spork, you know that. Ken doesn't make installers and BZ2 doesn't have any.

BZ1, by the way, clearly is supported here; there just aren't a large volume of posts about it.

[Sporkinator]

Heh. Battlezone would be a total joke if it wasn't for the full game installer. Almost nobody would be playing. I remember when we needed to upgrade from one 1.5 build to the next, and the installer was still being updated and uploaded. Within that short time span, we had numerous complaints about the installer not being updated. The vast majority of the community is using the installer. Patching from CD install is too complicated for the average user and some don't even have a CD to begin with. Ken is too busy to make a proper installer, and he didn't even have to since we more or less did it for him. To support a game as old as this one is to offer a full game installer.

Battlezone is absolutely free to download and play online, regardless of whether you want it that way. Activision and Atari obviously don't care, otherwise they would have stopped us by now. Any arguments about whether or not it's "legal" don't apply. Activision and Atari aren't losing sales, and bz1.com isn't making any money off of the game. To continually argue and censor the installer is just plain silly. BZ would have died out years ago without the installer. Battlezone.org/.net/.com are to thank for BZ's survival, and yet I've seen members on this forum talking trash about it. They spit on BZ and have zero appreciation for it. Links to the installer, the very game itself, are censored. That's no way to support BZ. Look, ssuser couldn't even install it properly, and none of you have even bothered to help him. Nice support you have there.

Also...

scavs are slow
compared to BZ2 scavs because they have to go back to the recycler to drop off.

If you don't build a silo in the scrap field, you're going to have a bad time!

To re-iterate, the friendly-fire being removed is a non-issue. The changelogs are all on battlezone.videoventure.org.

[Ded10c]

Heh. Battlezone would be a total joke if it wasn't for the full game installer. Almost nobody would be playing. I remember when we needed to upgrade from one 1.5 build to the next, and the installer was still being updated and uploaded. Within that short time span, we had numerous complaints about the installer not being updated. The vast majority of the community is using the installer. Patching from CD install is too complicated for the average user and some don't even have a CD to begin with. Ken is too busy to make a proper installer, and he didn't even have to since we more or less did it for him. To support a game as old as this one is to offer a full game installer.

Battlezone is absolutely free to download and play online, regardless of whether you want it that way. Activision and Atari obviously don't care, otherwise they would have stopped us by now. Any arguments about whether or not it's "legal" don't apply. Activision and Atari aren't losing sales, and bz1.com isn't making any money off of the game. To continually argue and censor the installer is just plain silly. BZ would have died out years ago without the installer. Battlezone.org/.net/.com are to thank for BZ's survival, and yet I've seen members on this forum talking trash about it. They spit on BZ and have zero appreciation for it. Links to the installer, the very game itself, are censored. That's no way to support BZ. Look, ssuser couldn't even install it properly, and none of you have even bothered to help him. Nice support you have there.

I have no problem with the installer, but that doesn't change the fact that it is illegal. I don't blame GSH for not wanting a link to it here; though it's unlikely, he could get into all kinds of legal trouble for it (and so could Spectre). The only reason links to the site were removed form BZU was because the site owner had already been threatened by the host for it.

[Apollo]

Ssuser,
The zfs not being loaded was probably due to the new zix files not being present.

The changes have gone far beyond mere updates for new systems, indeed changes are wide spread and impact on original gameplay. Pathing changes you see are due to Bz2 pathing code being implimented.

Not all changes are noted in the logs.

One thing you'll notice is replacing items in the bzn is much more senitive to crashing, i think that's from the hash code.

Hope to see you make use of the new lua mission scripting.

Oh... the names in the game come from the sprite tables, Ken hasn't added that feature unfortunately, modders don't have that option. Also a way to switch mods hasn't been done either.

[Nielk1]

Battlezone is absolutely free to download and play online, regardless of whether you want it that way. Activision and Atari obviously don't care, otherwise they would have stopped us by now. Any arguments about whether or not it's "legal" don't apply. Activision and Atari aren't losing sales, and bz1.com isn't making any money off of the game. To continually argue and censor the installer is just plain silly. BZ would have died out years ago without the installer. Battlezone.org/.net/.com are to thank for BZ's survival, and yet I've seen members on this forum talking trash about it. They spit on BZ and have zero appreciation for it. Links to the installer, the very game itself, are censored. That's no way to support BZ. Look, ssuser couldn't even install it properly, and none of you have even bothered to help him. Nice support you have there.

Spork, the world has changed. You might not know it or just plain not like it, but it has. Sites like GoG, services like virtual console, game publishers are making money again on their oldest titles. There has already been a crackdown on some old console game roms since the virtual consoles have come about allowing companies like Nintendo to sell you the classics again on modern hardware. The idea of abandonware doesn't really exist anymore unless the rights to the game get entirely lost somewhere. The truth of the matter is, nothing is abandoned anymore, it just cycles. BZ1 could come back any time in a ported virtual console or arcade sense, or be re-released on a site like GoG, and then its abandonware status would be revoked. It should be noted that in fact "abandonware" is not a real status and has no legal meaning but is instead simply a common parlance across the internet.

And the reason people talk trash here about that site is because they have been banned for issues such as having known connections to BZ2. Yes, really, banned for talking about BZ2 on another board. I know I was for a while there, and that was the reason given (not stated quite so plainly but instead more vulgarly). Not to mention the whole personal vendettas thing, the banning of people from his ANET server he doesn't like, the fact his full installer locked its servers.dat so it only listed the defunct original servers and his (allowing his ANET bans to have full effect).

BZ's 1.5 patch is a chance for Battlezone 1 to live again NOT under the thumb of one party, not under Spock or Apollo, and that is good. It is just too bad we can't get more BZ1 people on this site because other sites claim to be "the official place" for BZ1.

[Apollo]

BZ's 1.5 patch is a chance for Battlezone 1 to live again NOT under the thumb of one party, not under Spock or Apollo, and that is good. It is just too bad we can't get more BZ1 people on this site because other sites claim to be "the official place" for BZ1.

We can always count on Nielk1 to make up stuff to argue about, atleast he is consistent. Wondering when he'll make good on his threat to wipe out all Bz1ers and take over the game...

[Psychedelic Rhino]

Yeow. I agree with spork about something.

The logic above is one of the reasons I gave up on this forum many months ago. (I was told to look, that I would get a laugh)

The irony is NO ONE CARES about these ancient games. If anyone did, there would be people actually playing them. Wait, on yes, an ultra small group of maybe two dozen people. Maybe a quarter of those believe someone is looking over their shoulder or might castigate them for a link. It's as daffy as it is hilarious.

Till next year. . .

[Ded10c]

No matter how few people care, it's still illegal to distribute a game for free before its copyright expires.

[GSH]

If you really care about getting exposure back to the world at large, sign the petitions at gog.com for them to carry BZ1/2. There's 1300+ people that have signed for each game. That's hardly "dead." And people will trust an easy installer from gog to have followed the letter of the law for legality and be a trustworthy, simple download and install.

-- GSH

[Apollo]

Gog business office is waiting for me to get the license, Atari has the rights and no assets, that means you have to get Activision to retrive the assets from Iron Mtn and i haven't talked to them since i got sick. It takes some work and money to get it all together, petitions are going no where, money talks.

[Ded10c]

Then how come you haven't involved other people yet?