Battlezone Forums

This is not a debate about hovering. And 1.3 has not fixed the 'game being practically over at the 5 min mark' that significantly weaker teams experience. It has exacerbated the problem of the weaker team being unable to come back from being beaten by a stronger team. In 1.2, come backs happened a lot more frequently -- and it wasnt because one team just switched to hovering as a tactic -- it was because the losing team got their heads in the game and began to play with more finesse. You can certainly do the same thing in 1.3, but the difficulty is much higher. A person who would lose in 1.2, will still lose in 1.3 due to playing ability, not because one player has mastered use of an 'exploit'.

Play some strats and you will see.

Not totally so. If you wish to "come back" (and I've seen this on your teams in practice) you usually try to coordinate a factory strike, or a Forge strike against Scion (much more debilitating) which is a huge blow to the other team's tech for at least 2 minutes assuming no scavs are around in base. This is the utmost risk vs reward attack though, more so than an endgame rush* because screwing it up and getting killed puts your team deeper in the hole. I've seen longer games with two successful factory strikes against a more competent commander which lead the game going on much longer than it should have had a right to.

*endgame rush being less risk - reward because you either do it or lose the game, no other options

On an unrelated note, back to back walkers are the most unstoppable force in game.

Surgical strikes on things like the Factory/Forge, base upgrades, etc are valid tactics, most certainly. They are, however, more difficult because a single person can defend vs a team of 3 attackers with a laser scout or blast/las tank, and even if the attackers kill the target, they will almost certainly die in the attempt, dropping lots of loose for the defending team. This means because base defense is so effective (due to lack of warp, lack of fast running, combined with stronger D and de-emphasis on the teching vs defense) that the risk of dying while hitting base outweighs the reward in a majority of circumstances, hence what you're left with either dogfighting or pool hitting. Pool hitting is more difficult in 1.3 since you can't fast run and are almost certainly forced to engage (or die) when being engaged, or run against a stronger opponent and accomplish little. Both of these things accelerate teching, especially for the team that has stronger dogfighters and lategame comes sooner (lategame, not being quite as fun as early and midgames due to the lack of mobility/hit-and-run).

Zero Angel wrote:Surgical strikes on things like the Factory/Forge, base upgrades, etc are valid tactics, most certainly. They are, however, more difficult because a single person can defend vs a team of 3 attackers with a laser scout or blast/las tank, and even if the attackers kill the target, they will almost certainly die in the attempt, dropping lots of loose for the defending team. This means because base defense is so effective (due to lack of warp, lack of fast running, combined with stronger D and de-emphasis on the teching vs defense) that the risk of dying while hitting base outweighs the reward in a majority of circumstances, hence what you're left with either dogfighting or pool hitting. Pool hitting is more difficult in 1.3 since you can't fast run and are almost certainly forced to engage (or die) when being engaged, or run against a stronger opponent and accomplish little. Both of these things accelerate teching, especially for the team that has stronger dogfighters and lategame comes sooner (lategame, not being quite as fun as early and midgames due to the lack of mobility/hit-and-run).

Like a man in a real war.

Maybe what we need is more foliage, to make guerrila tactics more practical.

Zax wrote:Like a man in a real war.

Maybe what we need is more foliage, to make guerrila tactics more practical.

Press T key to target, lol. Even with red-field (Comment edited for language - GSH) it wouldn't be hard to spot a sabre or something which would be either bright red or blue under most circumstances.

Zero Angel wrote:This is not a debate about hovering. And 1.3 has not fixed the 'game being practically over at the 5 min mark' that significantly weaker teams experience. It has exacerbated the problem of the weaker team being unable to come back from being beaten by a stronger team. In 1.2, come backs happened a lot more frequently -- and it wasnt because one team just switched to hovering as a tactic -- it was because the losing team got their heads in the game and began to play with more finesse. You can certainly do the same thing in 1.3, but the difficulty is much higher. A person who would lose in 1.2, will still lose in 1.3 due to playing ability, not because one player has mastered use of an 'exploit'.

Play some strats and you will see.

Where did your first reply go, you know the statement that I shouldnt derail this topic, does that no longer stick now you found an argument to reply with?

Red Spot wrote:Where did your first reply go, you know the statement that I shouldnt derail this topic, does that no longer stick now you found an argument to reply with?

I figured 'This is not a debate about hovering' was succinct enough, as it already called attention to the fact that this thread was starting to get derailed into hovering thread no. 6520. So I just removed that part and chained another argument on top of it instead which would redirect the argument into something less trite.

Next time if you dont want an other subject to take the lead in a topic ... stop replying to people concerning that subject ...

now, now, redspot, you're just getting yourself in hot water here if you keep replying like that in every topic.

Mortarion wrote:now, now, redspot, you're just getting yourself in hot water here if you keep replying like that in every topic.

Red Spot wrote:Next time if you dont want an other subject to take the lead in a topic ... stop replying to people concerning that subject ...

Red Spot,

This topic is not about hovering.

Stop putting words in people's mouths, stop taking things out of context, and stop trying to flame the strat community. Just stop. It's that simple. Anyone who has never played a strat or has not done so for a very long time has no right to comment on what a strat game is about in the eyes of these specific players.

The topic starter wanted to know if there is a way to make a weapon un-selectable. The answer was "no, unless you modify the weapon's ODF." Question answered. Topic over. Maybe split the Blink posts into the 1.3 forum and lock this one to prevent more hostility?

Feared, stop talking about anything as long as you find it entertaining to greaf people ingame ..

Feared_1 wrote:The topic starter wanted to know if there is a way to make a weapon un-selectable. The answer was "no, unless you modify the weapon's ODF." Question answered. Topic over. Maybe split the Blink posts into the 1.3 forum and lock this one to prevent more hostility?

Did you actually bother reading the rest of the topic? Guess you didnt or you're just a biased as usual. Maybe you should tell GSH you dont want him to sidetrack a topic? No guts, no glory

Don't assume that because Feared 1 actually plays strats on a regular basis, or frequents the same teamspeak server as 'The Vearie Group' that he's automatically a griefer. He is not, and he is one of the least mean-spirited people I know -- he was also one of the people who originally tried to repair the rift between the stratting community and the bzu/matesfamily crowd.

It's blindingly obvious about how uninformed you are when all you do is make assumptions based on what you read on message boards.

Blinky-boo. All I know is that Blink is the coward's device of defense. So why don't we just add an option in the next PB to have Blink construction enabled or disabled? That would eradicate the need for long, cumbersome, jargon-laden threads like these.

i'm thinking of a counter-blink special, like blink suppression. not sure of how that might be implemented, but it would add some more complexity to strat play. maybe something like damagefield/static, but adjusted to prevent blink within a certain radius from your ship. kinda like in star wars where they go to make the jump, but all they hear is the device winding down. uh-oh...