Re: Complaints about pb6.x (split)
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:46 pm
Topic split. Not relevant to 89e, specifically.
And, I'll say this: don't pretend that pb5.1 was perfect. There's bugs where all players could occasionally lag out when someone joined. And, plenty of warp/lag bugs that have been fixed for pb6+ are also present in it.
One of the goals for pb6+ was NatNeg, which democratized hosting. People can now host how and when they want; it's not in the hands of some old grognards trying to defend their turf. I see more games, and more players in games w/ pb6+ than 1.0-1.3pb5.1, checking all day. The democratization of hosting has led to more MPI games, but that is people's choices. Let people have their freedom to play as they like, rather than trying to force them to become a clone of yourself playing your pet game mode. Fewer strat games is not the "death" of BZ2. Strat is not the only game mode in BZ2 worth playing. Strat is only one of many, and that game mode is being hurt (I feel) more by the uber-competitive spirit of strat, where winning is the only thing. Not everyone wants to play that way. If they want co-op MPI games, at least they're playing BZ2. Griefing MPI -- as some stratters have admitted -- is not the way to expand BZ2's community. People playing MPI are smarter than those griefers give them credit for, and such griefing makes the MPIers less likely to play strat. Deal with it.
Bugs in pb6 like games not disappearing seem mostly gone in 1.3.6.1. A little honesty and credit for fixes would be appreciated, rather than this high maintenance drama queen whining. Pings of ??? mean that the host hasn't forwarded ports. If that helps you mentally filter out people who don't know enough to forward ports, great. To me, they're playing BZ2, which is better than them having to beg for games from sociopathic grognards.
Strat players may complain about not being listened to, but as long as they try and move things that are not negotiable, they're being stupid. This comes from their insistence on being loud and in charge in game, and a mistaken belief that their game actions can carry over into real life. Instead, they should find one of the many areas they can speak on.
Some of the non-negotiables for BZ2 development:
1) All game modes shipped with a BZ2 patch are legitimate in BZ2 and the BZ2 community. Strat is merely one of many modes, and does not, will not, receive extra attention. If stratters refuse to participate in 1.3 development, then strat will receive less attention, and that's the stratters fault for not participating.
2) All mods are legitimate in BZ2. Not just 1.2 w/ ZST -- which to be honest is a mod. As above, people should have the option and freedom to play any mod (and any patch) they want. I believe in allowing options, not just forcing people into playing one game mode all the time.
3) Flying is a bug, and if you want it, go play 1.0-1.2. There's no forced upgrades, as those that have recently played 1.3pb5.1 have proven.
1.3pb6+ is the present and future of BZ2, by number of games played and total players. People have the opportunity to participate in its development. Those that keep trying to drag BZ2 back to some mythical past where things were "better" (more like still broken, just in different ways) are fighting a losing battle. They've been trying that approach for 7+ years now. When will they wake up and figure out that they need to change tactics. I recommend dropping the "loud & in charge" domineering approach. You're not being listened to because of the way you speak. You won't be listened to until you change and approach BZ2 with humility.
-- GSH
And, I'll say this: don't pretend that pb5.1 was perfect. There's bugs where all players could occasionally lag out when someone joined. And, plenty of warp/lag bugs that have been fixed for pb6+ are also present in it.
One of the goals for pb6+ was NatNeg, which democratized hosting. People can now host how and when they want; it's not in the hands of some old grognards trying to defend their turf. I see more games, and more players in games w/ pb6+ than 1.0-1.3pb5.1, checking all day. The democratization of hosting has led to more MPI games, but that is people's choices. Let people have their freedom to play as they like, rather than trying to force them to become a clone of yourself playing your pet game mode. Fewer strat games is not the "death" of BZ2. Strat is not the only game mode in BZ2 worth playing. Strat is only one of many, and that game mode is being hurt (I feel) more by the uber-competitive spirit of strat, where winning is the only thing. Not everyone wants to play that way. If they want co-op MPI games, at least they're playing BZ2. Griefing MPI -- as some stratters have admitted -- is not the way to expand BZ2's community. People playing MPI are smarter than those griefers give them credit for, and such griefing makes the MPIers less likely to play strat. Deal with it.
Bugs in pb6 like games not disappearing seem mostly gone in 1.3.6.1. A little honesty and credit for fixes would be appreciated, rather than this high maintenance drama queen whining. Pings of ??? mean that the host hasn't forwarded ports. If that helps you mentally filter out people who don't know enough to forward ports, great. To me, they're playing BZ2, which is better than them having to beg for games from sociopathic grognards.
Strat players may complain about not being listened to, but as long as they try and move things that are not negotiable, they're being stupid. This comes from their insistence on being loud and in charge in game, and a mistaken belief that their game actions can carry over into real life. Instead, they should find one of the many areas they can speak on.
Some of the non-negotiables for BZ2 development:
1) All game modes shipped with a BZ2 patch are legitimate in BZ2 and the BZ2 community. Strat is merely one of many modes, and does not, will not, receive extra attention. If stratters refuse to participate in 1.3 development, then strat will receive less attention, and that's the stratters fault for not participating.
2) All mods are legitimate in BZ2. Not just 1.2 w/ ZST -- which to be honest is a mod. As above, people should have the option and freedom to play any mod (and any patch) they want. I believe in allowing options, not just forcing people into playing one game mode all the time.
3) Flying is a bug, and if you want it, go play 1.0-1.2. There's no forced upgrades, as those that have recently played 1.3pb5.1 have proven.
1.3pb6+ is the present and future of BZ2, by number of games played and total players. People have the opportunity to participate in its development. Those that keep trying to drag BZ2 back to some mythical past where things were "better" (more like still broken, just in different ways) are fighting a losing battle. They've been trying that approach for 7+ years now. When will they wake up and figure out that they need to change tactics. I recommend dropping the "loud & in charge" domineering approach. You're not being listened to because of the way you speak. You won't be listened to until you change and approach BZ2 with humility.
-- GSH
