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Effeminate gays seem to be very rare in the UK, I think its more of a cultural thing and possibly related to the absence of male role models at a formative stage of childhood, probably a lot more complex than that, effeminate straight men are fairly common here though.

If you take a childrens toy that is designed to match the different shapes into their respective slots you'll see the peg object is designed to fit into the hole on the board. Once the child figures this out you reward him and clap your hands. But if he take a peg in one hand, another peg in the other hand and tries to fit them together you slap his hand and say "no", so he knows not to do that. Marriage is between a man and a woman, call it a civil union, marriage, institution or whatever.

axe, you slay me sometimes.

Axeminister wrote:If you take a childrens toy that is designed to match the different shapes into their respective slots you'll see the peg object is designed to fit into the hole on the board. Once the child figures this out you reward him and clap your hands. But if he take a peg in one hand, another peg in the other hand and tries to fit them together you slap his hand and say "no", so he knows not to do that. Marriage is between a man and a woman, call it a civil union, marriage, institution or whatever.

I've read that phallicy sssoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many times.

That's not an argument, Axe. You can't link "peg fits in hole" to "homosexual marriage should not be legal".

You gotta provide a solid legit reason for suppressing someone else's human rights.

Zenophas wrote:You gotta provide a solid legit reason for suppressing someone else's human rights.

Well, you have to give a sound legit reason for not giving one party the same privilege as another. It isn't a right to be married, for anyone.

They did some research not too long ago. The question was wether people would still be opposed to gay-marriage if they changed the name, if they called it something different than marriage. If so people are more accepting of such marriage .. that says enough to me.

Nielk1 wrote:

Zenophas wrote:You gotta provide a solid legit reason for suppressing someone else's human rights.

Well, you have to give a sound legit reason for not giving one party the same privilege as another. It isn't a right to be married, for anyone.

Actually it's been long established that marriage/civil unions are a civil right (as of 1967 I believe) when a case went before the supreme court over an interracial marriage.

Axeminister wrote: If you take a childrens toy that is designed to match the different shapes into their respective slots you'll see the peg object is designed to fit into the hole on the board. Once the child figures this out you reward him and clap your hands. But if he take a peg in one hand, another peg in the other hand and tries to fit them together you slap his hand and say "no", so he knows not to do that. Marriage is between a man and a woman, call it a civil union, marriage, institution or whatever.

I don't think you're considering where those pegs go....

MrTwosheds wrote: Red is being deliberately Un-pc . But I do actually understand what he is saying.
If two straight men wanted to get married... would you all be so understanding? no, you would be trying to figure out what the scam was. It just does not happen, because it is entirely unnecessary, straight men can be great friends, love each other, and never find any need at all to involve state or church in their friendship, indeed doing so could only be divisive and harmful to their friendship. How does engaging in meaningless (non-reproductive) sex alter that situation? It does not. A homosexual relationship is just a normal good friendship, with an additional level of intimacy.
This is actually an argument with religion and their attitudes towards homosexuals, the issue of marriage is a politically correct cover for this battle.

Emphasis on "you all" but certainly not that inclusive.
It's legal here, and widely accepted. The only people who ever have a problem with it are religious people by and large. Funny how the less religious countries rate as the happiest.

Red Devil wrote: re: country living; all the homosexuals i have ever met have been from the city. therefore, cities breed homosexual behavior. that's my story and i'm stickin' to it.

re: not believing they're of the opposite gender. sure, right. the presence of a feminine character (sometimes dressing up in women's clothing) and a masculine one in each pairing probably has no bearing on it....

From my personal experience, gay people from small place, country, rural towns all end up moving to the city because of these attitudes.
I grew up in a small town and all the gay people I knew (which admittedly was maybe three) all ended up in large cities. Why? Not because "cities breed homosexuality" but because people living in cities tend to be far more accepting and tolerant.

What you state above, is simply an anecdotal fallacy.

HitchcockGreen wrote: From my personal experience, gay people from small place, country, rural towns all end up moving to the city because of these attitudes.
I grew up in a small town and all the gay people I knew (which admittedly was maybe three) all ended up in large cities. Why? Not because "cities breed homosexuality" but because people living in cities tend to be far more accepting and tolerant.

Gays tend to gravitate to the city, not because it 'breeds more' or because they 'come from cities', or the acceptance of city people, it is primarily because of the relative obscurity if they desire it. Even proud homosexuals want some time off from societal pressures occasionally. The added benefit it helps the straight/gay ratio is merely a plus.

If the ratio becomes close to even, so much the better for the homosexual. Some cities like to wear it as a badge of honor, such as San Fransisco, but the vast majority of progressive city populations simply accept it.

I personally believe the vast majority of parents would not wish to give birth to homosexual children, for a large range of reasons. That fear has been raised again recently.

Modern society has been dealing with the 'Boston Marriage' for many decades. It is a part of our society. Religious beliefs have whacked the mole for hundreds of years, but times are ah changin'.

I personally believe it's a genetic aberration. Don't misunderstand my meaning. I don't mean in the derogatory sense. I think there's a genetic proclivity we yet to fully understand, and along with the environment, whether it be inside the womb or outside, helps shape the developing brain towards an ultimate direction. This cocktail of genetics and environmental input can get crossed and we see those who find both sexes attractive. I would offer listening to a few minutes of this discussion. There no subtle suggestion of evil here, so don't start, it refers to a mass murderer, but easily translates to ANY genetic and developmental posture regarding free will and choice.

As to marriage, it is long overdue for the our system to become fair as to the rights and benefits of adults. The antiquated mindset of our system to shape society with marriage rights and benefits is now so utterly transparent, any honest and compassionate individual should clearly see it.

Precisely.

i don't see it.

I guess the simplest argument one could make is this;

If homosexuality were a choice, then who within some societies, would ever choose it?
Certainly in many parts of the U.S. you'd be looking at widespread discrimination and just consider the ramifications of "choosing" homosexuality in say, Qatar.

The whole "it's a sin against god" argument doesn't carry a lot of weight as it's often the cry of those who are cherry picking from the bible.
Sure, the bible says it's an abomination, but in the same section it also says you are allowed to sell your daughters into slavery and you can't wear mixed cottons. So how many citing Leviticus follow those rules as well?

And as for arguments that it's a "new phenomenon" then I suggest brushing up on your history. It's been around forever.

Yea, let's not start on biblical contradictions (#202), there's an in-depth science on the art of cherry picking.

Mairriage is just a non sensical piece of paper and taboo invented by man.

Just like Easter Egg hunting, or circumcision, or the entirety of Christmas with a tree and presents on a particular day.

In the end, it means nothing.

All that matters is that you love the person your with.