Battlezone Forums

First of all lets start off with the obvious fact that balance changes are rare and can be catastrophic in some cases. Because of this, rarely are balance changes intentionally included in the 1.3 patch. This of course presents a challenge if a bug fix or other change causes an imbalance, as I am sure we have seen in public and private discussions about the Scion Scout canceling tactic. In that case, although exploitative, it is part of the existing balance and further so it is a pure ODF error and not in any way related to the engine itself (like other exploits we will not discuss). This bug and others have gotten a lot of discussion, but little action, so here are some guidelines on how to take care of balance issues yourself.

Don't get Defensive or Emotional
It's a game. A GAME! If there is an issue with the patch, report it. If there is a balance issue, report it, but don't report it more than once and beg or demand a change. It also isn't nice to try to go around others' backs: there is no reason to bother GSH directly about an issue undergoing current discussion.

Try to Fix the Issue Yourself
GSH certainly doesn't have the time to edit ODFs for balance AND patch the game. He has a job, a family, and probably more than that on his plate. There is NOTHING stopping you from working on balance edits yourself. Editing ODFs is really easy and can be done in notepad. It is literally the simplest of all types of Battlezone II modding.

Make a Recycler Variant
This is suggested time and time again and normally is never done. In fact many who complain about issues with balance act insulted when told to do this. This is the only method to get play-testing of your balance changes. What is great about this method, is that it can be added to Battlezone II without fear of Bad Assets when it is not selected (if it is created correctly). The deal here is simple: make a variant that demonstrates your change for the sake of testing. If it is accepted by the overwhelming majority I would say it is safe to say it will become the standard (though I can make no promises). If it is not, there is always the chance it will be added as a stock Recycler Variant so next patch no one has to download it separately, it comes as a built in option. If you have trouble making a Recycler Variant, many modders would be glad to help you; even more so if you have ODFs and all already built that override the stock files they could probably be converted into a Recycler Variant in less than an hour, possibly only a few minutes.


Hopefully this will stop some of the griping that has been occurring as of late and give some people some direction.

What I am thinking of here, is a rec variant aimed at subtly re-visioning the strat game. Not some mini mod with new units or weapons, but just little things tweaked to make the game better or address issues that have arisen due to 1.3's continued development.
So far we have some stuff just lying about.
An EMP stream that does not flood sound channels and is a little bit cheaper on the ammo.
Trucks with increased mass, they don't fly so well but they drive much better, die less, and don't get stuck or climb things so often.
A multi-lock that can actually multi lock a target before next friday arrives.
An aggressive wasp, altered quite allot.
Safe seekers that don't explode on your rear fender.
Some good ideas to make the comet and poppers more worthwhile as a strategic choice.
Utter despair with resin.
I would also like to explore small tweaks to some of the vehicle's physics and fix up some more of the naf weapon/explosion effects.

I do not want this to be "2sheds" recycler variant, I want it to be what the people who play strat actually want to see.
I welcome your positive input.

I like those ideas. How about some changes to help prevent the five second, rush in and kill the recycler with your scouts sort of game.

Not sure that there is much that can be done about that, except hard fighting or picking your opponents carefully. That is all a part of the continual evolution of the game. Slow starting turrets where added with that intention...now its a rush to kill yours and get theirs to your base as fast as they can. Win the dogfight, take the middle ground and loose with your starting turrets, faf their next lot of emptys, get armory, move turrets to their remaining pools, and then on to your base, drill heavily with chain gun. WIN!
Some of our vets really don't like long strategic games.

Proper placement of the two starting turrets drastically reduces the effectiveness of early Rec rushing. Base rushing is a different matter and the two starting turrets alone won't be able to help much, you'll have to fight the enemy off yourself or mass turrets/towers, both of which lead to bigger issues about 5-10 minutes later.

I find that the Tranquility map is also effective at preventing such attacks.

Clavin12 wrote:I like those ideas. How about some changes to help prevent the five second, rush in and kill the recycler with your scouts sort of game.

Early (pre chain) rec rushing is almost never seen, even in 1.2 games where there is no starting rats. Even post-chain rec rushes are not used very very often, they're more of a thing that you do if the opponent is ahead of you on tech and has sacrificed his defenses to tech up faster. A standard 3-rat defense around the rec is usually enough to cover all the angles and protect the recycler at least, and that combined with quick timing is enough to stop most rec rush attempts.

As well, given that teams have a starting of 2 rats -- that alone should act as a deterrent to rec rushing and base camping.

Rec rushing has never been a major issue in BZ2 that needed to be looked at. The end-all solution to it has always been 'build more defense!'

'In one point two we didnt have starting rats. Had to build em ourselves. AND WE LIKED IT!' (little bit of an HCBaillyism showing through)

Clavin12 wrote:I like those ideas. How about some changes to help prevent the five second, rush in and kill the recycler with your scouts sort of game.

1.make a model of each rec add 2 taps.
2.make a turent model for each race.
3.edit odfs and when done put it all in to a RV.
and this is a problem that dose sow up in 1.3
and no I will not start working on that right now.

S.cavA.rmyG.en wrote:

Clavin12 wrote:I like those ideas. How about some changes to help prevent the five second, rush in and kill the recycler with your scouts sort of game.

1.make a model of each rec add 2 taps.
2.make a turent model for each race.
3.edit odfs and when done put it all in to a RV.
and this is a problem that dose sow up in 1.3
and no I will not start working on that right now.

OK that is far more of a mod than a balance change. And this topic is supposed to get people to do the changes themeselves.