HOW TO: Help your team in Strat - A guide for strat newbies

[Zero Angel]

I remember Bear from 1.2 and 1.3, a fairly good player, you sure it was him AVing 1.2?

Bear was a decent player as far as skills go, but nothing special, very much one of those players who would go and dogfight just because he could, get outnumbered, die, and then yell at his teammates for not backing him up.

He was very much like how Tom is today -- very immature, with a massive ego, and no hesitation to berate his teammates and commander on all chat if he died or his team wasnt winning. Based on his in-game attitude he would be a high risk for becoming a serial AV'er.

[Feared_1]

I remember Bear from 1.2 and 1.3, a fairly good player, you sure it was him AVing 1.2? Could have been just another cloaker I suppose.
So difficult to tell who's who these days. Some people just got no honour.

It was absolutely him. He even told us. I remember a time when we told him not to AV if he died and he said, "we'll see lol," which of course prompted the host to immediately kick him. You can guess what happened next.

Everything Sly said is completely true, but there is a difference between 1.2 and 1.3. In 1.3 strats, newbs are not kicked as often. Usually we need 1-2 more players to get a good game going, so there is no need to kick those players. There are also some vets who I would guess would be absolutely dominated by some non-strat players, but we let those vets play because they know how to play.

Skill is not so much of a factor any more for deciding who we should let play. At all, really. As long as vets know who you are, you can usually get in the game. You can get known by playing DMs with vets, or by trying to join vet games and gaining some respect. The easiest way to do this is:

1. LISTEN TO YOUR TEAMMATES.
2. Help your teammates fight and focus on the same target they are - don't do anything by yourself unless instructed to do so (stick together).
3. Don't die (it is more important to not die than to get a lot of kills)
4. Don't be annoying (asking for ships when you die, being sarcastic with teammates, not being on team chat) - your teammates know what they are doing.

Generally, as long as you play smart, you'll be fine. Those of you who don't play strats (or at all...), I really want to see more of you come into strat games and learn how to play. It is actually very fun and can get extremely intense and nail-biting, unlike a lot of other game modes.

Come play

[Zax]

Hell, I even one chatted some newbs who came into strats that got kicked offering to train them. 99 percent of the time, they turned out to be some ADHD kids who would just spend 5 minutes with me then say OK LETS PLAY MPI THIS BORING LOLOLOLO.

I've had that happen a few times... I've never had anything more mood crushing, almost painful, come from my time with BZ2.

Well there you go, the golden ticket clause. If you can speak well versed English "I kind of suck since I recently started but I want to play and get better" boom, you are in. That was almost all it took. Big headed ego vets love to spread their wealth of knowledge and the right way to do something, and everyone has the right way, so presenting yourself as a blank slate that is able to read and respond(!) is the best way. Those ship rejoiner guys almost if not always 100% would never say a single word, they were androids. The undesirables. The reason vetting of players was such a painful process. They mostly if not exclusively stick to MPI games, even locked 1/1 MPI games now, so their prevalence in strat has completely fallen. All I can say is let em' be; out of sight, out of mind.

Back when I finally got accepted by name into strats and could see things on the other side of the wall, you'd see some guy join in with some name you never heard. After the obligatory "de-cloaking" which you don't hear much anymore, he would continue sitting there. "vets only" response: " " <- empty string. If host was nice, "leave or kick" response: " ". They had it coming as I see it.

BZ1 style strat is creeping into bz2, though. The people in between MPI and hardcore race strats take things at an arguably BZ1 tempo (don't mention rushes or I'll glurp you). Build times were common as were shorter, less drawn out battles. The no attacking scavs rule was a much stronger force early on because if your scavs in bz1 were obliterated you didn't have pools to refill them, you were screwed and the game was dead. I can't say there is a problem with this style, the issue lies in the playerbase being too small to exploit it. There simply aren't enough casual stratters. Vets see a strat and try to go rocket booster burnoff on the other players because that's just how it is. If some of the more "advanced" mpi players could hook up with the casual stratters, then you have more strats going on, but strats the vets may not particularly want to be involved in, bringing the dilemma full circle. I suggest putting slowstrat in your server notes box or the title itself.

Again, there probably aren't enough players to subdivide a game mode like strat. Coexisting is going to be difficult and issues like forgottengames has had will continue cropping up as they always have. The Hyundai Accent owner and the Jaguar owner both get what they want from their cars, but sit the together at a bar and have them argue why their car is better and look out. Same with Moped and Motorcycle drivers. Not sure if there is a solution since we can't just inject more casual players, or maybe I'm just overthinking this all after a long day of work and need some sleep.

[Red Spot]

unlike a lot of other game modes.

That little bit of text illustrates your entire post ...

[Feared_1]

unlike a lot of other game modes.

That little bit of text illustrates your entire post ...

This is very ambiguous; you weren't very clear.

Can you provide a counterexample?

[Red Spot]

That you end with a statement that is giving an indication that the only gamemode that is fun and intense is ST, and I assume even you dont agree with that .. (I am inclined to think it was a stab at MPI, but even if so you still have DM.)

In other words you try to get people into the game, at least that is what I take from the rest of your post. That last bit does leave a bitter taste even if the rest of your post was positive. (I dont even mean this to belittle you, just pointing it out.)

Not sure why you want a 'counterexample', not even sure what you mean with it.

[Feared_1]

A counterexample is something that disproves a statement. Can you provide an example that makes my statement false? However, I don't want nor need one.

In addition, I did not imply any of what you said in my post. Don't jump to conclusions and don't take things out of context. It creates confusion for readers. I was making a statement that I believe to have been true and did not intend to attack any other part of the game until you had the audacity to bring it up. Don't fabricate flame-bait and don't try to keep me from trying helping people see the game from a unique perspective. I will not post any more on this issue to preserve the integrity of the topic. I hope you will follow suit.

[Sly]

Well, again, things do seem to be getting out of hand. Even if Feared_1 did imply something against MPI's, is it so much different from what has been said by others in this topic against vets? In each case, it comes down to individual opinions, and you yourself are a strong advocate of voicing ones opinion wherever it may be (at least, from what posts I've read of on bz2maps.us Red).

It's not that I hate MPI's and mods; its just that the two have been something like a person born in the starfleet mod, had steroids injected into them....and then knocked upside the head with a hammer....I have arguably put in almost as many hours in MPI's as I have in strats. I know they can be challenging and fun (FE and g66). Unfortunately, for me, being a sort of bz2 conservative, MPI's have strayed away from what they were in the past. Before, I enjoyed fighting against regular AI. Even in g66, I did not mind rocket towers or a few other weapons (aside from seige cannon), as they seemed to blend nicely in with the game. When FE came out, the race was so flawless that it seemed to have always been a part of the game. However, these days, MPI's have become a mockery of what I used to enjoy. I played one of the releases of FE. I was about 30 minutes in when I was going over a hill. To my surprise, I found a giant, almost 100 to 1 (probably exaggeration) replica of a scion pilot or something of that sort. It was hovering around, called a "cerberi commander". It shot some kind of death beams out of its pulse rifle. It was so disgusting that it didn't even deserve a /leave, but a process kill altogether on my part. g66 5.1 was pushing it for me, but it was still fun. I spent 5+ hours on some maps capturing all of the pools with my friend Supernova. Now, g66 has so much random crap in it that it just makes the MPI's unplayable for me. In regular MPI's in 1.3, I've noticed someone added in a "light" rocket tank. It cost something around 55 scrap, but it only came with shadower missile; hmm...a treaded msl scout basically. WHY?!? Picked up UEP, saw something using Ion Gun 16 or some BS, /leave.

[General BlackDragon]

The new FE and G66's MPI's were touched by RD. He has a unique idea of "hard".

[Red Spot]

A counterexample is something that disproves a statement. Can you provide an example that makes my statement false? However, I don't want nor need one.

In addition, I did not imply any of what you said in my post. Don't jump to conclusions and don't take things out of context. It creates confusion for readers. I was making a statement that I believe to have been true and did not intend to attack any other part of the game until you had the audacity to bring it up. Don't fabricate flame-bait and don't try to keep me from trying helping people see the game from a unique perspective. I will not post any more on this issue to preserve the integrity of the topic. I hope you will follow suit.

Well, I can, wether you like it or not, want chatlogs to go with that?

I didnt jump to conclusions, I do not fabricate anything ... do you want chatlogs/videos to support my statement? (with you yourself in them!)

The integrity of this topic was lost soon after it was made, and you're now only trying to convince yourself it wasnt .. but again you show you cant take any criticism as it doesnt line up with your point of view, and that is the whole problem with this community (a big part of it at least).
You can simply not accept that not everyone wants to play the game how you and the people you hang with do, not even so much if they join your games, but simply if they play a gametype you do not aprove of.
Dont get me wrong though, feel free to group up on me when on BZ2Maps, or even here, I wouldnt even mind if you try to disrupt "my game", but you even go as far as disrupting other peoples games just as an effort to try and annoy me .. where you fail, but you may end up pushing an other player away (than follow with statements you want to train people).

I see the statement about training people more often, but why in the world would anyone want that, at least once they know you dont shy away from wrecking games of people who play other gamesmodes?

But as my comment does not work in your favour now, yet you dont mind doing the reverse when it suits you, would I now 'follow suit'?


Sly, tell me what statements I have made about certain gamemodes or how they should be played? Please do. You're right I am on BZ2Maps and dont shy away from being the (counter)troll, tell me why I wouldnt? Because I may become target of ridicule by you, when you see me in a MPI?

Perhaps I am sidetracking this topic a bit, but I will not shy away from saying what I think needs to be said. And in regard to your guys click training people, go ahead, but be big enough to tell them the full story, up front.

But as long as this behaviour stays present in this game, and its perfectly normal by certain individuals to wreck the fun of others purelly for your own entertainment, I will be here. Deal with it.

[Zero Angel]

The weapons, textures and ODF on the pilot thing was my creation, and RD wanted to borrow it. Originally it used a machine gun and would 'overboost' at you and use its energy claw weapon at short range. I don't know if RD made any modifications to it. I substituted the 'Leader' unit in 1.2 FE 'One v One' Chaos IA mode with it, and I thought it was pretty fun to fight since the AI scripting sent that thing to personally kill you. I later replaced the giant pulse rifle on it with a much better looking rifle.



I can see it as a problem where it breaks the suspension of disbelief (ie: if poorly implemented). I agree about things like Light Rocket Tank (aka: treaded missile scout), there is really no point.

[Ded10c]

Bear in mind that the FE prereleases were, AFAIK, pretty much a complete dump of RD's FE dev folder.

[Red Devil]

modding FE and then G66 has been a learning experience for me. i depended on/asked for feedback, but didn't get a as much as i would have liked. i first picked up FE because no one else had worked on it since it came out, so i learned how to program in C++ (kinda), then i got the opportunity to work on G66 and only recently did the lights come on.

i'm no genius and am not perfect (and never will be), but, hey, at least i put forth the effort. i'm giving my brain a break now and will get back to FE and Epic in a bit and add limited and build-able portals to Epic, plus apply what i have learned working on G66. instead of having one small main map, it will be like having multiple maps with multiple battles due to the size of the maps.

btw, i added ZA's Leader guy to FE to add a surprise and some variety to the mix. some people may like it, some may not. FE and Epic are still a work in progress, but it's still better than the other choices in gaming we have out there.

BTW, for variety, you can play Strat with G66. i still have to return it to an always-on mod.

[Sly]

Lol Redspot, you seem to have some kind of delusional narcissistic view that we care so much about you that we stalk you in order to attain your attention...As I stated earlier, ego's go both ways in this game (Remember my rant about "how dare they kick ME from vet strats etc.) Same thing here, you assume that people's actions only revolve around you. Reason I mess around in MPI's (including, what, one of your's that I entered?) is because I know I can turn around at any time and crush the pathetic hilo AI. It is not because I am seeking attention; It is just my way of battling the boredom.

Say what you will to save face in front of your friends here Red Spot, but you are as big a troll on bz2maps.us as Cloaket and I were on this forum. Very hypocritical on your part...

@ Red Devil; I know you put in a lot of work into the mods, and a lot of people do appreciate playing those types of mods. The surprise I got from the commander pilot was tantamount to going to a haunted house and finding a clown throwing pies at me. I personally would have provided more criticism early on to help out but I remember an incident where I think Fulmen was punished for voicing criticism.

Anyway, Feared_1 has it right, no more need to post here. This has been the only topic on this forum in ages, and its gone sour as well. I will see you on bz2maps.us Red Spot. I know you can't resist the urge to socialize...

[Red Spot]

Lol Redspot, you seem to have some kind of delusional narcissistic view that we care so much about you that we stalk you in order to attain your attention...As I stated earlier, ego's go both ways in this game (Remember my rant about "how dare they kick ME from vet strats etc.) Same thing here, you assume that people's actions only revolve around you. Reason I mess around in MPI's (including, what, one of your's that I entered?) is because I know I can turn around at any time and crush the pathetic hilo AI. It is not because I am seeking attention; It is just my way of battling the boredom.

Is it? I am not hiding anything, and you still are. You go into MPI's cause the AI is easy? You only kill human-team vehicles, they dont even run, or shoot back. In other words, in your book its ok to destroy human-team recy's and fabs cause of their dumb AI? Interesting statement.
Its ok to snipe teammates? Was it when KP did that recently in a ST? You keep putting yourself above others because it doesnt bother you when it doesnt happen to you, but when the tables are turned its all not perfectly fine. If you really felt so annoyed by being kicked in 1.2, why havent you learned from it and grew up a bit?
Dont get me wrong, you're a bloody good player, but at the same time one of the biggest pricks in this game. At least towards people who are not part your ST-click, or people that dare to call you (and others) out for the actions.

Say what you will to save face in front of your friends here Red Spot, but you are as big a troll on bz2maps.us as Cloaket and I were on this forum. Very hypocritical on your part...

Sly you know perfectly well that I say on BZ2Maps what I want, as well as I do here. And as long as no insults are made, I will get away with it as well. That has nothing to do with friends, as I dont see people that I do not know as friends, and I surelly feel no need to save face. Anyway, this site, BZ2Maps, ingame, all part of the same community, as you show by being here.
The only reason I might say it over here, is because of your negativity towards this site and GSH, yet you do come here to try and make some form of statement, if I opened my mouth on BZ2Maps you probably wouldnt even have replied and just tried to troll me together with a select few others.

Be a man, choose how you want to be and stick with it, or grow up and let others have their fun without fear of some players destroying it. Give others the respect you clearly also like yourself.

Btw, what is so hypocritical about it? Please enlighten me. Cause I stand up for something, cause I dont shy away from going against people who feel a need to do harm to others? But by saying you "were" trolls here, does that mean you no longer are? And you are not trolling on BZ2Maps yourself? For instance by dragging up 10 ~2-4year old topics?