Would this work?

[Player]

Remember how I said I was making a mod? Well, i kinda completely forgot about that but I'm stating it now. I was considering adding a mining feature where you could build robots that would dig pathways underground for resources to build super units, like the marv in command & conquer 3, kanes wrath or turn them into biometal or trade them in a free for all. Does this work? Also, the resources are completely randomized, and the robots build pathways underground so you can put turrets underground to defend them, or treaded units. They can also dig into the mountains to get them. Please respond if you like this idea. Also, im bringing back the badger

[MrTwosheds]

Does this work?

No.

[GSH]

BZ2 is best modded to be like BZ2, or an existing mod. If you are trying to go crazy, you're probably in for a world of hurt.

Your first mod(s) should be maps and tweaked units. Learn the rules before you try and break them.

-- GSH

[General BlackDragon]

While theoretically possible, it'd be a lot of complex work to make a system that could, in theory, place tunnels and etc in the correct positions/order as it "digs". Custom controlled objects that "disappear" underground for X seconds and then re-emerge and give resources isn't as hard. The only way you have to alter the terrain is basically the same way you place tunnels in the map editor, so it will never be "smooth" or look "good", though you can hide that with enough smoke FX.

[Player]

There are no such thing as rules in mods, only limitations



#muzzletoph

[Player]

Does this work?

No.[/quote]

Mr.TwoSheds? more like Mr.Negitive!

[Player]

All jokes aside, why doesn't it work Mr.TwoSheds? How do you think it doesn't work, and how can we make it work? I refuse to take just no as an answer because its pointless, if it doesn't work, explain why, or suggest ideas to make it work.

[Ded10c]

BZ2's terrain engine is not 3D, but 2D. It can't layer terrain on top of, or beneath, existing terrain; models are required to do that. It's also not possible to dynamically modify terrain, so deformation (craters and the like) also can't be done. You could fake digging a tunnel system with an animated model, but to create an entire cave system out of it would require a massive model that pushes the polygon limit - and you'd only ever have one cave system from that model. You could re-use it, but it'd be the same cave. You'd also have to trigger its animations using a specially created mission script.

In other words, to achieve this you're going to need skills in C++, modelling and animation.

[General BlackDragon]

Actually terrain can be "dynamically modified" by placing a terrain owning, base plate piece, similar to how ISDF/Scion buildings deform terrain when built, if not built on perfectly flat ground.

However, the object has to stay in place in Multiplayer or it will revert to the saved map shape on a resync/player join.

Also terrain is purely topographical, there is no way to make overhangs or caves, those too have to be objects with a terrain shaped model.

You don't need a single model for the tunnel system, but you would be creating a new tunnel system just like you would in the map editor, so you'd have to place each tunnel piece exactly aligned using a transform position matrix.

[Ded10c]

Actually terrain can be "dynamically modified" by placing a terrain owning, base plate piece, similar to how ISDF/Scion buildings deform terrain when built, if not built on perfectly flat ground.

Player, this is Genera BlackDragon. If you want to do the impossible, ask him and he'll provide the closest-possible result. It'll be hacky as hell but at least it'll work.

You don't need a single model for the tunnel system, but you would be creating a new tunnel system just like you would in the map editor, so you'd have to place each tunnel piece exactly aligned using a transform position matrix.

I did consider this, but the request was worded as though Player wanted the... uh, player... to be able to follow the unit and visibly see it digging the tunnel.

[MrTwosheds]

Just a simple answer. It might be possible, with lot's of hard work, to create something that looks a bit like what you described. But really it's a non starter, The terrain and Ai operate on a firmly 2 dimensional basis, It would all get very messy trying to spawn custom cave models in game.
The Ai can be persuaded to go under objects that look like the ground, but to actually go under the terrain is not a state that they "understand" and getting them back above it again would probably be difficult.

[General BlackDragon]

Complex honecomb tunnels would be terrible for this, yes. But a relatively straight forward tunnel would work okay. Could even create a shortcut under a hill.

[Player]

I honestly dont know how to respond to this feedback. Im just going to say ok and leave it at that.

[MrTwosheds]

But how does the logic of this work? how many tunnel pieces get built? where is the entrance and exit? Have you just wrecked the maps pathing by building a tunnel or creating a new mountain in the wrong place? Anyone who has build a map with preplaced bridges knows how tricky placement and pathing can be. Live terrain alteration (other than flat to flat) is a problem for game modes using AI units. Bz2 is not Minecraft.

Preplaced upgradeable objects?

How about the ability to construct large offensive text terrain altering objects and calling the Mod Trollcraft Battlezone, where the idea is to surround your opponent with abusive message covered terrain and prevent their units from being able to attack you while allowing you to still attack them, recyclers would have to be indestructible so the loser is always forced to quit.

[Red Spot]

As GBD already pointed out, a lot can be done with some imagination ... and a lot of hard work.
However, no matter how nice you get it to look, the AI will never use it (properly) and it would in turn be a human (human vs human) feature.
Since BZ2's gameplay depends a lot on the interaction with the AI I wouldnt even go as far as trying to come up with a system to 'simulate'.