So Coxxon, how have you spent 2015?

[Red Devil]

i, for one, love what you have done, coxxon. we are fortunate to have you and have you working on this.

love the addition of the guns on the sabre and the detailing. also, i never really saw the cockpit there before.

[DeusExCeteri]

Alright, as much as it pains me to say it coxxon I do not like your buildings.

The vehicles are just beautiful, outright extravagant even, I can't name a single one of them that I dislike. Everything from the detail in the cockpits to the addition of those red light stripes, they're amazing.

The buildings, however, are honestly quite hard on the eyes. I agree with others that the EBM bumps were part of the issue but the main problem, from what I can tell, is that far too much detail has been clustered together in far too small of a space. There are too many lights, too many vents, too many clashing and contrasting pieces and it's all very distracting and makes it actually hard to tell what one is looking at.

Some of the changes to buildings too, are just outright hard to look at. I have no idea what you might have been going for with the Matriarch but it did not work. The Recycler in your most recent pictures as well, it honestly just comes across as almost garish and my eyes have trouble focusing on any important details. The Scav beside it, though, man, let me just compliment your vehicle work again, I couldn't have asked for better.

I hope that I don't come across as too harsh, I'm just trying to speak my mind and provide honest critique here. Your buildings feel too cluttered and some design changes were simply the wrong direction to try to take things. I know you want to release this in September and if I were you I would stick to that goal but I also hope you plan to keep updating these models and textures and refining them further afterwards.



Now that I've thoroughly insulted your abilities as a model-maker and told you your buildings all suck completely and are unsalvageable... how about switching out that ISDF orange for a rusted dull green? The old NSDF palette was and is the best, after all.

(joking, joking)

[Red Devil]

a little know fact is that xenomorphs are xenophobic - especially if the xeno is optional

[coxxon]

i, for one, love what you have done, coxxon. we are fortunate to have you and have you working on this.

love the addition of the guns on the sabre and the detailing. also, i never really saw the cockpit there before.

Thank you

and

Yup, the Sabre's gun look better now that there actually are some. Along with the cockpits, making sure weapons are actually on the vehicle has been another focus. The Scion hover units are particularly guilty of not having weapon geometry and shooting from weird places, so along with the sabres, hidden underside mgs, I"ve also fixed a lot of the Scion too.

a little know fact is that xenomorphs are xenophobic - especially if the xeno is optional

That's funny, I like that.

[Red Devil]

Ooo! Oooo! *raises hand* are you putting recoil objects on the guns?

[coxxon]

Okay, since I don't want to be thought of as completely inflexible, I've done a test on the Training Center.
First, I don't have the time, energy, or inclination to restart the buildings from scratch, but I can (make a) mess with the textures.
I sampled ISDF Orange #9 from texture: ibisdf00.pic ... Yes, the original textures use multiple shades of orange,
and yellow,
and dark grey,
and grey,
and light grey,
and blue,
and red,
and cyan,
and scion yellow
and scion blue
and scion grey
and scion ...
Do you see where I'm coming from folks? Matching colors exactly is impossible since even Pandi didn't use consistent colors. Which is another reason why some of the buildings look so different in tone from the original, but back on point. I changed the main orange and background grey (to try for literally the 30+ time to find an average color to use across all textures) and also removed some of the detail from the orange areas, cut back on half the lights and half the windows. I might still ditch a few of the windows, but will still keep some to help give a sense of scale that this game's artwork is sorely lacking. Also no bumps or spec highlight was used.
Anyway on to screenshots:

What some hate:


What all have been playing with:


My attempt at compromise:


Let the hyperbolic adjectives fly. I've gotten a horrendous and a garish. Come on, surely somebody's got a cacophony for me. (Been a long day, couldn't resist a little sarcasm.)

[Red Devil]

don't compromise. sure, seek input, but don't let people derail you completely.

Whenever i look at your Uler work, i am always impressed.

btw, i like the first one best.

[Ded10c]

Well, IMO that new one certainly fits better. The first link is very stand-out, very bright and bold... possibly too much so. The other is much subtler, and I think that does it credit.

[DeusExCeteri]

Wow, all of the yes, the new version looks quite wonderful. The more muted colours are definitely good and the details that you cut from the texture certainly make the details that are still there pop much more. Make the ISDF structures look like that and I'm sold.

The Scions are, on the other hand, a much different story. Your current Scions are quite beautiful, I love their textures, the buildings aren't what I would call garish. What I will say, though, is that some alterations come across as almost cartoony. I didn't go into it very much in my first comment, but using the Matriarch as the clearest example, the fins on the sides are honestly ridiculous but I think might be salvageable.

Their current shape doesn't really do much, is the main problem, to me it just looks like they've deliberately made themselves a bigger target, they aren't positioned to be solar panels or scrap storage sacks or additional internal space or some sort of building apparatus...

Say, there's an idea.

How about this?



The Matriarch deploys a sort of roof over it's build area, perhaps both to assist in unit production as well as protect units being built?

It's just an idea and I won't be sad if you don't like it, I just wanted to say that I really found the apparent ugliness and uselessness of the matriarch's current "frills" to be bad but not necessarily a terrible idea.

Seriously, though, your current one looks like those lizards that puff out their neck folds to frighten away predators.

[coxxon]

don't compromise. sure, seek input, but don't let people derail you completely.
Whenever i look at your Uler work, i am always impressed.
btw, i like the first one best.

Don’t worry, it’s still going to be 90%+ my re-interpretation. Much like an author writes the first draft for them self and then edits for their audience, I’m trying to follow that too. Though technically I guess I haven’t really finished my first draft, so there’s still stuff yet to see that’ll make the community’s eyes bleed – either in joy or horror.

That’s another thing that makes me wonder why mods don’t get finished. Beyond time, resources, and commitment, I’ve often wondered if too many modders aren’t showing their work too soon. Then either they get critiques or criticism, and then start second-guessing every decision they make, and before long they just drop the whole project. Just a thought…

And I guess anyone else who sees this and is interested.

I still tend to favor the color/detail style in the first image (which is really more like the fourth version), but I can also understand if there are those that like the second better. Granted, while the ISDF textures did have some detail in the orange parts, my version probably did go too far.

As for the orange and grey, well as I mentioned earlier it’s been difficult to find the right “average” orange. I’ve gone through at least 5 different ones of my own, including a similar version of the one in the second picture. It works though and may be a closer to the “stock” version. I definitely like the lighter grey better though. Since everything is made out of bio-METAL, I tend to think of most (not all) metals as being a brighter, and felt that the lighter grey followed that. Plus it gave better contrast to the details in the surface. But I neither love nor hate the darker grey, so I’ll try to keep going with that one.

I’ve also been reworking some of the Scion ones. The stock textures are too muted, too muddy, but again, I’m willing to knock back my version a little closer to them, just not all the way.

on your comments

What, you don’t like my flapping, yellow chicken wings? I’m outraged! How dare you! Just kidd’n.

I’ve been very iffy on them long before I created this thread. I wanted to try and give both some bulk and some animation to the Matriarch since it doesn’t have side buildings like the ISDF recycler, but I guess it’s time to admit they’re just not cutting it and will need to cut them.

Though, the puffed up lizard comparison, actually seems like more of a defense for keeping them.

Thanks for your alternate idea, excellent thumbnail by the way. I can’t say for certain I will use it, but I’ll definitely take a closer look at it when I get back to the Matriarch model.
- - - - - - - - - -
Which brings me to my next issue, I’ve been finding lots of things that’ll need fixes (Why is the Archer over there while its collision box is over here?), plus reworking the textures again, plus implementing better MP textures, making it work with VSR, then going through more rigorous play testing as a .pak package … so I suspect my release month will slip yet again … but it will come out in 2015! … most likely … maybe … dear lord I hope so …

[MrTwosheds]

I’ve also been reworking some of the Scion ones. The stock textures are too muted, too muddy, but again, I’m willing to knock back my version a little closer to them, just not all the way.

You have my sympathy on this, I have been trying to upscale/rework the original 256 x256 to 1024x 1024. So that they "look the same"
The absence of detail caused by the reduction of what was clearly once very detailed original art is extremely challenging.

[Red Devil]

also, it will be up to the players to use them or not, so it's not like they have a gun to their heads.

stay true to yourself and let the chips fall where they may.


me, i use your textures in all my installs, coxxon.

[DeusExCeteri]

on your reply

Definitely take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, I'm not one to claim my opinions as gospel. The work you've done is above anything that I've yet attempted and if I'm being honest, you have me inspired. It'd be nice to see some of the fan factions redone in such immaculate detail, perhaps even a little known faction of Egyptian-god-worshiping lizard people.

Though, the puffed up lizard comparison, actually seems like more of a defense for keeping them.

I've changed my mind, it's a squat fat man wearing skinny jeans and a wing-suit standing in a Superman pose.

[DarkCobra262]

I for one, actually like all the aesthetics... they're interesting though I feel the Scion buildings are a bit much but a welcome change. While I'm not going to give any constructive criticism, I just want to point out that what he's doing is essentially what 343 did to Halo when they put out Halo 4. Some people prefer the new aesthetics, some don't, it's just the way it is.

[Red Devil]

from the "while you're at it" department:

wondering if you could add hardpoints for each weapon type (cannon/gun/rocket/mortar/special) so people could customize them.