Help with effects

[General BlackDragon]

It would be cool to be able to set it to "smush" near the ground,

[TheJamsh]

TJ, the issue looks pretty damn subtle for 'all my effects will be borked if fixed'.

Not neccesarily, if you think the bigger a particle gets the higher it will be raised from the ground. No more nice-looking smoke on the ground that can actually rise slowly... among numerous other things.

But meh, if a flag were implemented it wouldn't be so bad, sometimes it might be desirable to have this effect but not often...

Imagine you wanted to create a huge explosion, the epicenter of if would be raised up way above the ground if you used big sprite particles... t'would suck.

[Zax]

If we were to base fixes off of somebody's pet project, nothing would be fixed, so meh yourself.

[TheJamsh]

My point is, it majorly limits the particle system somewhat if everything gets clipped above the terrain, which isn't desirable in the slightest. Its incredibly limiting to what sort of size you can have your particles...

For example, If i want to create a smoke screen or somesuch from a small object on the ground, using large particles, I don't want it to be hanging in mid-air away from the object.

I realise 'majorly' is probably a bit too strong of a word for most around here, but I'm probably the one who spends the most time dabbling within the PS, and put a lot of work into revamping stock weapons, which arn't just intended for future use with a pet project or mod. One of the many reasons BZ doesn't get much attention these days is because is ugly by comparison with other games. We are some of the few who prefer atmosphere and backstory over eye-candy. Would be much easier to build a wider fan-base for a game that looks and sounds good.

BZ's engine is a damn good engine and way ahead of its time, no reason we couldn't expand its fanbase if some legwork is put in. Straying off topic here...

EDIT: On reflection and watching that video, I can say that my effects would be TOTALLY borked if the change was reverted. There's a lot of effects I use regularly to make things look half decent, for example; the keener-eyes on some of you may notice the spinning flares on the pulse-stabber ground explosion. If this change was reverted, they would be drawn way above the explosion and would look ridiculous.

Okay I've proved my point. hopefully...

[Zax]

No you have not. This goes for the thumper effect in BZ1 which get's me so upset (things spinning underneath terrain) as terrain should be 0. Always. There is *nothing* beneath terrain in a game without destroyable terrain, with the sole exception of certain buildings/tunnels and the like. If something clips through terrain, that breaks immersion. Things don't behave that way in real life or in most games.

[TheJamsh]

On the contrary, Flames sparking up 10-15 meters higher than their intended scource would break immersion much quicker than clipping particles. (Also im not sure why objects spinning beneath terrain in the BZ1 thumper has any remote relevance to particle systems?).

Large flames, smoke and soft flares don't randomly appear 15 meters higher than the source either, which is exactly what will happen in game if a change is made and they are large enough. They also don't 'ride' accross or up terrain either. No games i'm aware of force particles to stay above 'terrain' at all times, quite the opposite in fact to avoid such instances I've just described. BZ's stock particle systems are clumsy, and use very few parts to them, which is why clipping is obvious.

Shaders can make a particle texture 'fade out' when its close to another material to reduce the effect and appearance of clipping in modern games which makes it less obvious, but it definitely happens, and I've never heard of particles being forced to stay above 'terrain' or ride against objects in any case.

Forcing things to NOT be able to clip through terrain is most certainly not a fix, its just a restoration of outdated behaviour. I was under the impression that the patches were designed to improve gameplay in Stock, that doesn't neccesarily have to revolve entirely around programming, it can be a visual improvement too.

[Zax]

Not an improvement.

Stock BZ should look right. Clearly 1.2 had an effect that somewhat negated the clipping, it was lost in 1.3 and NOT through means which were intended. That's called a bug, or in other terms somethin' broke.

And the thumper? That was what I call an analogy if you weren't aware. Terrain needs to be the LIMIT. Things do NOT go under/bleed through terrain. That is a graphical GLITCH.

[TheJamsh]

The limit for solid objects yes, not effects.

I've seen the image. Still doesn't convince me that it will be a change for the better.

[Ded10c]

I think, for the most part, the 1.2 equivalents look better. I'm going to say something very simple here and ask, wouldn't it be possible to just recreate the effects with a terrain interaction?

[Nielk1]

TJ, face it, stock over mod.

An again, this is a minor issue. The fix is CLEARLY not to just raise everything up either. So your entire bases for complaining is wrong. Let alone the fact you are complaining in the first place.

[TheJamsh]

By the look of it to me, a particle is raised above the ground so that its edges don't go beneath terrain, what happens when you want a large particle to stay on the ground? Looks like anything with draw_twirl from where im sitting which is majority of the PS.

Now, were this instead is only applied to sim_dust, that would be fine... and would probably fix most stock effects in the process.

Hell I don't care if terrain interaction is on by default to fix stock, just at least let there be an ODF toggle for it...

[General BlackDragon]

actually it kind of "squishes" close to ground and expands to normal.

[Nielk1]

I too see squishing, not clipping or raising.

[GSH]

Try the 89o hotfix -- contains bzone.exe and bz2edit.exe -- for code that is closer to 1.0-1.3pb4a. Speak now, or 1.3.6.2 might be upon you sooner rather than later.

-- GSH

[Ded10c]

Something I can test without internet? That's going on my to-do list for today.