You may want to have a look at this

[AcneVulgaris]

"They hate us for our freedoms" rings kind of hollow when we don't have any.

[APCs r Evil]

The last "crazy" theory I heard was that "their" plan was the nuclear destruction of the US via Russia/China's inevitable response to the US' aggression towards Iran.

If that's the case I don't see where they (Global bankers, I believe) stand to profit, the amount of nukes being tossed back and forth would probably give us a good old fashioned nuclear winter coupled with global irradiation.

[Nielk1]

You know, I was down to thinking there was no difference between liberal and conservative politicians until this hit. The bill was sponsored by John McCain, and Obama has said he will veto it.

If McCain had been elected, this would become law very soon.

Red and NielK, are you JOKING? If so, I apologize for not getting it.

No, I am quite serious. However I don't consider McCain a conservative even by modern standards.

What most people don't seem to realize (more likely: don't want to) is that this whole economic clusterf*** started when a conservative was in office. Obviously they were doing something wrong.

Like invading a country we had no real reason to invade.

If you refer to Iraq, we were enforcing UN sanctions. Really, the f*cking UN should have done that, not us. Instead they had us do it so they could b*tch about it after the fact.
And it started when reaching across the isle like media pandering morons. I swear, if a conservative would actually be conservative and not do these compromises (that mean "give up all your ideals and go with our way for token change, like maybe we will only increase the budget by 5 trillion instead of 6).

The truth is conservatives are not the morons the media portray them to be, the media is just blatantly liberal.

And while I am at it, this soak the rick crap is stupid. Does anyone bother to actually run the current numbers? This is the same garbage that happened with teachers and their pay. Yes, that means I am taking offense to the anti rich crap now, and the anti teacher stuff before, making me by media standards neither liberal, or conservative. Of course, as I said, the media is crap, a cesspool of self interest.

What we really need are a bunch of regular people put into government. Term limits for every position, maximum term per area limits so ppl can't jump around jobs in the same general place, and an abolish-ment of the current parties where no one runs under any color, name, or influence other than their own.

We either need that or the 'veil of ignorance', and honestly I don't want my memory wiped every time I go to the voting booth and reloaded when I leave, I wouldn't trust it. Government would probably be running it and we all know how well ANYTHING they touch turns. (Another reason for smaller government, everything they touch turns to ****, so leave them with latrine duty and stop having them run the whole banquet.)

Of course none of these things are ever going to happen so the best we can do is actually think about the issues ignoring every party line and media bias. Of course, I think only 4% of the population is capable of that and they're all autistic.

[AcneVulgaris]

The bill passed the senate 88-12, which means all the Republicans but Ron Paul voted for it. Only some stinky liberals opposed. Scary thing is they have the votes to override a veto.

You're identifying yourself as a conservative, but I don't think that matches up with your views. You sound more libertarian.

As for the "terrified, loud mouthed, ignorance exceeded only by his certainty" caricature of a conservative being a liberal media construct, thats false. I know dozens of people that are like this in person, and hundreds on the internet. They are every bit as real as the welfare scammers on the other end. The rot is everywhere.

[Red Devil]

Libertarians are really more conservative than conservatives.

i think the confusion arises from the use of 'liberal' to describes social democrats/progressives and the word 'liberty', which is part of the word Libertarian.

the current so-called conservatives are really just neo-cons, who are conservatives who have been compromised with socialist ideas.

[Iron_Maiden]

Just a heads up, Cain is out of the race.

[AcneVulgaris]

Dang... I was having such fun referring to him as "Herman Alizondo Dewayne Mountain Dew Cain. Should have thought of that earlier, I guess.

RD: What socialist ideas have the neocons adopted?

[MrTwosheds]

Hmmm, well trying to manipulate peoples voting by threatening them through their employers was very "socialist". It was a technique used by both those famous 20th century "socialists", Stalin and Hitler.
I was very surprised when it actually happened to me in 2001, its not like I could actually vote for an American president... and being British we really don't expect that sort of **** to happen to us, ever.

[AcneVulgaris]

The USSR and Nazi Germany were fascism masquerading as communism and socialism.

[VSMIT]

In this thread: Modern conservatives are Fascists.

[MrTwosheds]

Anyone who thinks applying pressure on employees to vote a certain way is acceptable in a democracy, is certainly not someone who values freedom or democracy. "Fascist" may be an exaggeration of their true nature, but nobody should want people like this in power, they are dangerous. A respect for democracy is essential for its continuation.

[Nielk1]

You're identifying yourself as a conservative, but I don't think that matches up with your views. You sound more libertarian.

Again, I align with the real meaning, not the modern twisting.

Obama and the rest of the lot, Rs and Ds, are destroying the country. Where I work a bunch of people just got laid off when we were hiring just before Thanksgiving because of the DESIGNED TO FAIL Super Comity. It was designed to fail from the beginning. The point was either the Rs would compromise every single ideal they had that could still pretend to be conservative in a compromise with the Ds or the thing would fail. In the event of failure the president would (and is) enforce massive cuts to defense (thus to contracts where I work) all while blaming the Rs.

Frankly, I would prefer fascists who are blatant to liberals who run complex schemes to create more needy people to vote them in. For the liberals of today it is all about getting more people on welfare, and then using that welfare as bate to get the vote. At least the so called Conservatives. You can fight something that is blatant.

[AcneVulgaris]

Liberal used to mean something else too. You're better off using the modern definition of the word, otherwise people don't know what you're talking about.

"today it is all about getting more people on warfare"

Freudian slip? It works though. Keeps those troops off the unemployment roles, and away from those OWS hippies who are causing so much trouble. We don't want them identifying with the people they're going to be policing.

[Red Devil]

Neocon

Neoconservative. Criminally insane spenders that believe in killing brown people for the new world order. Huge Orwellian government, unfathomable amounts of spending, bomb tens of thousands of people to death to rearrange the globe. Take the worst aspects of the liberal and conservative positions and combine them into one and you would have a NeoCon.
Neocons are the greatest threat to life, liberty and property this country has ever known.

source: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=neocon

1: a former liberal espousing political conservatism

2: a conservative who advocates the assertive promotion of democracy and United States national interest in international affairs including through military means

source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona ... nservative

Neoconservatism in the United States is a branch of American conservatism. Since 2001, neoconservatism has been associated with democracy promotion, that is with assisting movements for democracy, in some cases by economic sanctions or military action.[1]

In contemporary usage, the term "neoconservative" was used from 1973 to criticize American liberals and social democrats who had criticized the ambitions and outcomes of the Great Society's welfare programs. Although neoconservatives favor free-market policies in economics, they accept a role for the national government in fighting poverty and promoting the public good, like traditional conservatives in Europe and Canada and unlike most American conservatives, influenced by libertarian traditions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

basically, what happens when you compromise your principles

[AcneVulgaris]

You don't hear neoconservative anymore. Conservative won out, and covers everybody from teabaggers to Newt Gingrich now.

You can use the word any way you want, but the people you talk to are going to think you're talking about the accepted definition.

It's a word. It meant something. It means something else now. Let it go. You guys are libertarians.