Has model making for BZII peaked?

[Feenix]

Those of you familiar with me already know that I don't use standard BZII 3D modeling tools. I use an oddball program called Truespace. It's a very fine modeler but is minimally compatible in terms of use with BZII modeling requirements. It's far more campatible to making models for newer video games then making them for BZII. Yet I can't imagine using any other software currently available. It's like being between a rock and a hard space. I can produce servicable BZII models, but find it truly frustrating that many features like using material effects are not supported by BZII. I know, get over it and learn to master doing what is supported and keep using what you feel comfortable with.
Some thoughts I posted on my modeling forum.

[Zax]

@thread

No, it has not.

[MrTwosheds]

No it has not peaked, the xsi format may be old, but if you dig into it deep enough there are quite a few things you can do to make model look allot better than they do in stock bz2 models. Modern modeling programs can be annoying, because they can do things that just wont make it (through an exporter) into an xsi and bodge-ups like threed make people think that's all you can do. Anyone making bz2 models should study the .xsi's to discover what really does what.

[Psychedelic Rhino]

I thought Feenix meant 'peaked' as in quantity not complexity.

[MrTwosheds]

I am sure it has peaked in that way.
But, models for modern games are now of such complexity and require some serious input from the modeller, it is a daunting task for someone just trying to learn the skill casually for fun, I think the model tech level of games like bz2 allow people to make relatively simple models and have somewhere to put them, without them just looking dumb next to the natives.

[Feenix]

I am sure it has peaked in that way.
But, models for modern games are now of such complexity and require some serious input from the modeller, it is a daunting task for someone just trying to learn the skill casually for fun, I think the model tech level of games like bz2 allow people to make relatively simple models and have somewhere to put them, without them just looking dumb next to the natives.

Actually, I was referencing the many improvements in BZII except in the area of updating the modeling format of BZII. One bright note would be the increase in supporting models with higher polygon quality, but is that the extent of making improvements to producing models for the game itself?

I think even GSH mentioned something to the effect that model makers have requested some attention in this area about updating BZII to work with a more current version of XSI that newer 3D modeling applications can produce easily. As I mentioned in the past, compatible modeling/convertion tools seem to be on the decline, and the current modeling tools although somewhat functional make producing useable models a bit of a hit or miss venture producing inferior models that require a lot of extra work to make them compatible for BZII.

With a few exceptions most people prefer to use actual 3D modeling programs to create 3D models rather then using 3rd party utilties like notepad, or BZ2ME. Max, is not an option for some people on a budget. Blender 3D, is one viable option with it''s current XSI exporter; not the unfinished one that OML1 made, but the version produced by another blender user. Another possible contender is the Softimage XSI Mod Tool with it's XSI exporter. Are there any other modeling programs that support exporting XSI models directly? PS: I think that we all know about Softimage 3D itself already BTW.

[GSH]

Feenix - your reading comprehension as to what I said about model formats is wrong. See viewtopic.php?f=4&t=36 for my actual words. Specifically,

Neither of these approaches require my time. The community would love it if more people got their hands dirty. I'm not doing anything about either approach other than trying to prod people off their rears.

And, just to be clear: I'm not working on updating BZ2 for new model formats at the moment, or anytime soon, if ever.

And no, things are not on the decline. Model making for BZ2 is exactly where it's been for the past 5-8 years. There are tutorials out there, and recommendations. People who can follow recommendations are doing fine. Mods like QF, etc have come out in the past few years. Those that ignore the tutorials and insist on using their own pet modeling software simply because it makes the first 30% of modeling for BZ2 easier are still stuck in a rut. Modeling for BZ2 is not just a case of using a 3D package. There's an entire pipeline to getting it in BZ2. Pet apps like Truespace might make the first 30% of that pipeline easier, but you're off in the swamps for the last 70%, and nobody will help you because you ignored everyone telling you not to go that way.

-- GSH

[Psychedelic Rhino]

Neither of these approaches require my time. The community would love it if more people got their hands dirty. I'm not doing anything about either approach other than trying to prod people off their rears.

I'm not sure what is the ultimate motivation of most people left in the BZ and BZ2 world anymore. I always assumed the primary motivation was to re-build an active player community. But I see little, to no promotion, in that regard. All I see is people modding and modeling. That is all well and good, but there's no one to appreciate it other than a very small handful of long time players. For BZ it is even worse. BZ1.5 has been tweaked, improved, fixed and modded ad nauseam, only to be appreciated by around a dozen people. BZE1.2 now runs pretty much flawlessly, but I imagine this is the first most reading this is even aware there IS a BZE1.2.

Something is wrong when games such as Farmville have hundreds of thousands playing, but BZ or BZ2 have virtually no players. What I would like to see is people save the energy of one post and spend it on promotion of some kind. An email to friends, a post at another game forum, a mention in their non-BZ blog, etc. I do realize there ARE a few doing this, but if everyone did that, I am sure the community would bounce back, if minimally.

[Feenix]

Feenix - your reading comprehension as to what I said about model formats is wrong. See viewtopic.php?f=4&t=36 for my actual words. Specifically,

Neither of these approaches require my time. The community would love it if more people got their hands dirty. I'm not doing anything about either approach other than trying to prod people off their rears.

And, just to be clear: I'm not working on updating BZ2 for new model formats at the moment, or anytime soon, if ever.

And no, things are not on the decline. Model making for BZ2 is exactly where it's been for the past 5-8 years. There are tutorials out there, and recommendations. People who can follow recommendations are doing fine. Mods like QF, etc have come out in the past few years. Those that ignore the tutorials and insist on using their own pet modeling software simply because it makes the first 30% of modeling for BZ2 easier are still stuck in a rut. Modeling for BZ2 is not just a case of using a 3D package. There's an entire pipeline to getting it in BZ2. Pet apps like Truespace might make the first 30% of that pipeline easier, but you're off in the swamps for the last 70%, and nobody will help you because you ignored everyone telling you not to go that way.

-- GSH

I understand the shmeel about oddball 3d modelers like Truspace, I was thinking more in terms of Blender 3d and possibly the XSI Mod Tool both export XSI only a bit too recent for BZII older format requirements unfortunately. I make most of my models for BZII with just Truespace X and 3dex XSI, and for the most part am quite pleased with the results myself.

[Feenix]

Neither of these approaches require my time. The community would love it if more people got their hands dirty. I'm not doing anything about either approach other than trying to prod people off their rears.

I'm not sure what is the ultimate motivation of most people left in the BZ and BZ2 world anymore. I always assumed the primary motivation was to re-build an active player community. But I see little, to no promotion, in that regard. All I see is people modding and modeling. That is all well and good, but there's no one to appreciate it other than a very small handful of long time players. For BZ it is even worse. BZ1.5 has been tweaked, improved, fixed and modded ad nauseam, only to be appreciated by around a dozen people. BZE1.2 now runs pretty much flawlessly, but I imagine this is the first most reading this is even aware there IS a BZE1.2.

Something is wrong when games such as Farmville have hundreds of thousands playing, but BZ or BZ2 have virtually no players. What I would like to see is people save the energy of one post and spend it on promotion of some kind. An email to friends, a post at another game forum, a mention in their non-BZ blog, etc. I do realize there ARE a few doing this, but if everyone did that, I am sure the community would bounce back, if minimally.

I have links posted on my modeling forum to most of the remaining BZ sites unfortunately I'm not much of an online player though I love the game more then any other video game I ever played. BZ I and II both rock! Sadly though, when my other computer blew up a while back I have yet to reinstall BZII on my new one. I know I'll get around to it eventually, but for now I pre occupied (having a blast) just learn to master making 3d models and not just for BZII either. Now I'm starting to make models for the sheer pleasure of creating stuff; granted most of what I've made so far is heavily BZII oriented. I'll almost bet that I've created 3 or 4 hundred BZII compatible models with more in the works as I learn more about animating stuff in Truespace. Stuff like Boids, Land Animals, pilot figures; you name it I'm working on it.

[Ded10c]

Using an OS made this century yet?

[Feenix]

Using an OS made this century yet?

The replacement is a refurb. with XP Pro and P$. Although, I still use a old 750 laptop with ME at work. As soon as I can swing it a new laptop is on my wish list so I can install Truespace, That too will most likely be a refub. too. I'd get Max 3d but I'm kind of partial to my left bun LOL.