Terrain Normal/Spec Maps ?

[Zax]

Still waiting for the guy that has the mission: terminate Zax
Good thing as well?

Go ahead, make my day.

[Ded10c]

That's because BZ2 (dating back to BZ2 1.0) doesn't do true bumpmaps. Just Matrox's 'EMBM' - emboss bumpmapping. I don't know the reasons how/why that was chosen, but it was probably easy to implement and/or some deal got signed. Like most other things with Matrox and 3D, it was possibly interesting, but nowhere near great. Matrox had *great* 2D cards-- I owned one or two. But, they never managed to get 3D.

1.3.5 didn't have EMBM support. But, it was added back for 1.3.5.1 and up. Basically, the biggest problem with all these requested features is that new textures/models/etc would have to be created, and existing items wouldn't have it. But, EMBM textures were on the 1.0 CD, so those objections were moot. I try and do things that benefit *all* BZ2 maps and modes, not support some new feature that *might* be taken advantage of by a modder someday. Normal maps/etc definitely fall into the latter.

-- GSH

I will bumpmap and increase resolution of all the terrain textures if you can add true bumpmapping with proper strenght. I can pass you an old portfolio PDF to prove that I can offer professional quality. Sounds good ?

If you make the first move, I imagine it might be given some thought. Otherwise...

[HardMace]

That's because BZ2 (dating back to BZ2 1.0) doesn't do true bumpmaps. Just Matrox's 'EMBM' - emboss bumpmapping. I don't know the reasons how/why that was chosen, but it was probably easy to implement and/or some deal got signed. Like most other things with Matrox and 3D, it was possibly interesting, but nowhere near great. Matrox had *great* 2D cards-- I owned one or two. But, they never managed to get 3D.

1.3.5 didn't have EMBM support. But, it was added back for 1.3.5.1 and up. Basically, the biggest problem with all these requested features is that new textures/models/etc would have to be created, and existing items wouldn't have it. But, EMBM textures were on the 1.0 CD, so those objections were moot. I try and do things that benefit *all* BZ2 maps and modes, not support some new feature that *might* be taken advantage of by a modder someday. Normal maps/etc definitely fall into the latter.

-- GSH

I will bumpmap and increase resolution of all the terrain textures if you can add true bumpmapping with proper strenght. I can pass you an old portfolio PDF to prove that I can offer professional quality. Sounds good ?

If you make the first move, I imagine it might be given some thought. Otherwise...

What do you mean by this ? My portfolio contains NDA signed material and so on I am willing to show it only to Nathan. I also wish to remain anonymous to people other than Nathan.

[General BlackDragon]

That's fine...

just start making some textures and show em off.

[HardMace]

That's fine...

just start making some textures and show em off.

Now way I'm going to spend my juices on something that doesn't get use. I've already made thousands of textures (inc plenty of next gen stuff). Nathan can take a look at some if he wants...

[Nielk1]

Someone's touchy.

Don't think that there is anything here to prevent you from wasting time, time is wasted all the time here.

[HardMace]

No, just practical industry procedures... I could make a proving sample or two by request if portfolio receives green light. Nathan and Ken (from Pandemic) are the respective authorities of this patch, right ?

[Nielk1]

Yes, Nathan and Ken are making this patch though Pandemic doesn't exist anymore and neither work there anymore.

Ken hasn't been very active in BZ2 development lately but I hope he comes back some time. I talk to him a lot on Steam about various things, BZ2 and industry in general.

Its rare that we have anyone around here with actual portfolio deserving skills so its sad that you won't let us see it since it is tagged with your identity. :-/

Its a good idea to hide your identity though, I've had ass-hats (the type banned from this forum) call me using my domain record.

[Psychedelic Rhino]

Its a good idea to hide your identity though, I've had ass-hats (the type banned from this forum) call me using my domain record.

You can say that again.

[General BlackDragon]

If you made a set of high res textures, and distributed them to the public, they most certainly WOULD be used. So the time isn't wasted.

Nothing anyone makes for this game will ever be for money, it's all just free time modding. We do it because we enjoy it.
You act like you should get paid or something...If you enjoy making textures, then make them. Otherwise, don't waste time getting anyone's hopes up.

[Zax]

That's fine...

just start making some textures and show em off.

No way I'm going to spend my juices on something that doesn't get use.

GSH usually follows that same creed, so an impasse is likely.

I've hit this before with my mini project, IE the framework would be nice but samples are desired first.

[MrTwosheds]

I have done 1 or 2 texture "reconstructions" that is remaking a 256x256 image as a 1024x1024 or 512x512, it is hard work as you are essentially trying to reverse engineer the original artwork, adding detail without altering the overall look of the image. If I thought anyone else was interested, I would start a thread listing what has and has not been done and people could then contribute to it, by doing what is left. Eventually we might get enough to release a large textures addon pak. I don't think it would be worth doing anything about bumpmaps until the hires textures actually exist.

[GSH]

Plenty of people have upscaled textures for other games -- Oblivion and Skyrim have had a dozen fan-upscaled textures made for them immediately after launch. Whatever approach they take -- probably some sort of Photoshop macro -- works pretty well for natural textures, and would probably apply to the BZ2 textures. That would give more detailed items w/o Other BZ2 textures that have metal or details in them don't seem to work so well. But, a little R&D over in the Skyrim community might help create some upscaled textures usable *right now*, no patch needed.

Due to the past actions of the usual BZ2 blowhards, I don't really comment on if/what/when any future BZ2 patch may or may not contain. 1.3.5.* was where I focused my efforts on graphics and the terrain. I'm not in a point to drop my current BZ2 work (if any work is being done) and switch back to terrain; I generally prefer to have only one can of worms open at once. As in BZ2 1.0, multiple terrain layers are drawn as separate passes, which isn't the most efficient. Changing that would generally require shaders, which is a giant can of worms. And I'm not wanting to go there for a long while yet -- there's just too many players w/o pixel shader support, and supporting/debugging a second graphics pipeline is a LOT of work.

Bottom line: thanks for suggesting changes. Release what you want, when you want. Just don't count on getting me to drop things and rewrite things for things which might happen. Don't plan on me turning around a public release until I think things are good enough for that. But, if things showed up, I'd be willing to take a look and hang onto them until I find the time/space to work on things.

-- GSH

[Red Devil]

if people put out some hi-res textures, people would start complaining that it doesn't look like the original anyways.

[GSH]

Programmatically upscaled textures would look pretty close. Can even add a little noise at the highest resolutions to fake even more. BZ2DXTGen can do the upscale and add noise only on some mips for you. Or a lot of other things.

-- GSH