BZ II Clans?

[appel]

FLY
GEL
NoK
RIP
bac
LoC
VnB
HEL
GoD

oldschool clans.

[Nielk1]

Aside from SFP the list above looks pretty complete to me.

[Scantanious]

Anyone remember HA ?? I think that was it.. I may have that wrong, but I remember they were pretty amazing players in SF mod. hehe.

HA clan! I used to be part of that clan, I only got to the rank of [HA]prospector. my alias was imsc00ter....I was known as the RUSHER of the clan lol. Man those were the days! I loved playing in that clan. We dominated SF Mod. Lol I was only 14 year old back then. Jeezus I miss those days

[Zero Angel]

The clans that appel listed were all of the 'A-list' clans who had (a) above average skill level, (b) a large membership (>12 members usually), and (c) were active for more than 2 years.

In fact there were a lot of smaller clans like FCX (French Connexion), SFP (a newb clan -- also my first clan), AMF (Australian Mercenary Forces, another clan I was in as the only non-aussie -- an 'intermediate' clan), TsL (a somewhat short-lived clan with powerful players), HA, *SP*, and a smattering of minor clans which had small membership, were short lived, or did not participate in strat games.

The current strat environment has representatives from GEL, bac, LoC, GoD and SEK (the newest major clan) -- but it's rare to see more than 4 players of any single clan on at the same time.

[APCs r Evil]

Is FCX still around or have they moved on? Haven't seen anything of them for quite a while now.

[Zax]

Noob clans lead by a strong leader breed the best, most pro long term players since they put up with and teach. Other clans mock them but it is these players that give the game staying power.

RIP bz clans, both bz1 and 2.

[Mortarion]

Zax, do you have an example of a 'noob clan with strong leader'?

@ APC, pretty much every clan is dead. SEK however has quite a few members and they like to rep the clan a lot... but i'm not sure what they do besides host games with their clan site in the server description. They have participated in a few sek v games but they mostly only agree to those if they have stacked teams.

one time i cloaked as lumi, sly cloaked as wez i think, cloaket as snake or pyro or someone and misty waters as himself and did a GoD vs SEK... I think it lasted like... 12-15 minutes maybe? mostly clan wars are a joke. i remember one time bloodthirsty came on for a few games and we did a SP vs GoD with people who were in ~*SP*~ like 5 years ago donning their tags again for a game or two

I think it was
~*SP*~
Cloaket (commander)
Xohm
Bloodthirsty
Mortarion
---vs---
-}GoD{-
Snake (commander)
Luminess
Stalker
GK or Deva Im not sure.

I think that game also lasted less than 20 minutes.

[Zax]

Yes I do but not in this game. If you heard of Tribes/Football Mod I will gladly explain more, otherwise the comparison is lost.

[Zero Angel]

So your comment has nothing to do with bz2 -- as expected

*facepalm*

[Nielk1]

So your comment has nothing to do with bz2 -- as expected

*facepalm*

Except what he said is relevant to clans in general and could easily be applied to BZ2 at some point. In fact, it has probably happened and the game being simply 11+ years old we cannot recall. I do remember some noob clans that did quite well and evolved into better players, but I can't remember the names because I was what, 12?

[Zax]

So your comment has nothing to do with bz2 -- as expected

*facepalm*

Except what he said is relevant to clans in general and could easily be applied to BZ2 at some point. In fact, it has probably happened and the game being simply 11+ years old we cannot recall. I do remember some noob clans that did quite well and evolved into better players, but I can't remember the names because I was what, 12?

What do you know? Nielk actually understood the post while ZA bsod'd on it. Status quo maintained.

[Zero Angel]

Noob clans don't need a strong leader. They serve the purpose of being a unifier of lesser experienced players but they are nothing more than a brief stopping over point. Members of noob clans tend to leave them at the soonest possible opportunity as part of their natural evolution to join a clan that actually has services like laddering, VOIP, and training (noobs training noobs doesnt count as a service since being taught to do things the wrong way is more harmful than not being taught it at all). It is, in fact, the big clans that possessed the best trainers -- guys like {LoC}2Young2Die and *GEL*Billyboy have trained some of the players who have themselves come to be remembered as great players.

[Nielk1]

I should say 'what do you know' in a different sense. I can't expect someone who doesnt play BZ2 to know what goes on in BZ2.

Noob clans don't need a strong leader. They serve the purpose of being a unifier of lesser experienced players but they are nothing more than a brief stopping over point. Members of noob clans tend to leave them at the soonest possible opportunity as part of their natural evolution. It is, in fact, the big clans that possessed the best trainers -- guys like {LoC}2Young2Die and *GEL*Billyboy have trained some of the players who have themselves come to be remembered as great players.

Zax never said they needed a strong leader, he simply recounted the common events of a noob clan that has a strong leader coming to be better players.

I don't see why you have to pull this "don't play" crap out of your ass now, all of us have played the game, some of us longer than others, the simple fact is that some of us have grown up to the point we either have other responsibilities or other interests. That does not make our points of view any less valid. I for one have played the game since the age of 10 or 11, making my experience the greater part of my life thus far. Does the simple fact that I have not racked up much recent game play make my opinion any less valid than yours? Does whatever conditions are on zax's current play make his less valid? Especially when it is on the discussion of either the theoretical or past events for which we do have experience?

This entire "you don't play so you don't know" mentality sickens me. It is elitism at its core and in many cases it is just wrong. How do you know Zax doesn't play, how do people know I don't play? It is an assumption simply because the only time you see my name, its a griefer cloaking as me. How do you know that someone who you view as irrelevant, like Zax, isn't in a game right now under another name? Why does it even matter?

Stop the elitist bullshit, this isn't the time or the place.

For crying out loud, I am defending Zax, I often times don't even like the guy but this sort of BS has to stop. I thought you better than this ZA.

[Feared_1]

I'm going to take ZA's side here because, well, he's right.

People can claim they know what goes on in game from 10 years ago, or even 1 year ago. You can say that it doesn't matter if people see your nickname in game or not. We know you guys are not playing because the information that you post about what happens in game is wrong. The fact that you don't play doesn't bother us as much as the fact that you don't play but try to give information that you are literally guessing on. You would not be posting bad information if you were actually playing.

This is applicable to real life as well:
Analogy: You're not pulled over for driving drunk, you're pulled over for driving on the wrong side of the road, which leads to the conclusion that you are driving drunk.
Translation: You're not caught not playing the game, you're caught giving incorrect information that demonstrates ignorance about the game, which leads to the conclusion that you are not playing.

Don't want people to be unhappy about your not playing? Then don't make posts that demonstrate ignorance for in-game activity. Save these responses for people who actually know what they are talking about.

I did not direct this post to any individual person. "You" means "all of you," so don't think I'm targeting YOU (the individual reader).

[Nielk1]

I'm going to take ZA's side here because, well, he's right.

People can claim they know what goes on in game from 10 years ago, or even 1 year ago. You can say that it doesn't matter if people see your nickname in game or not. We know you guys are not playing because the information that you post about what happens in game is wrong. The fact that you don't play doesn't bother us as much as the fact that you don't play but try to give information that you are literally guessing on. You would not be posting bad information if you were actually playing.

This is applicable to real life as well:
Analogy: You're not pulled over for driving drunk, you're pulled over for driving on the wrong side of the road, which leads to the conclusion that you are driving drunk.
Translation: You're not caught not playing the game, you're caught giving incorrect information that demonstrates ignorance about the game, which leads to the conclusion that you are not playing.

Don't want people to be unhappy about your not playing? Then don't make posts that demonstrate ignorance for in-game activity. Save these responses for people who actually know what they are talking about.

I did not direct this post to any individual person. "You" means "all of you," so don't think I'm targeting YOU (the individual reader).

You are saying that a discussion about past things (past clans) means that anyone with past experience (zax for example) is irrelevant if their experience is not current? Bullshit. Extreme bullshit.

Then you go into some reasoning as to why our experience isn't current, ignoring the fact that isn't even relevant to the topic at hand. Furthermore, in other topics, not yet in this one but alluded to, you and others of your ilk take things that we say out of context in order to say we do not know what we are talking about when we in fact do. We know very well what is going on in this community, in all parts of this community, and I for one am disgusted by most of it.

You need to stop supporting this elitist bullshit and start thinking about the actual situation. The truth is, we probably have a better idea of the full scope of what is going on than you do. I for one can see a destructive trend in this entire community and have new players I am holding back from joining simply in the hope that I can revive the community once the rest of you kill it all off.

I am stuck wasting my time developing countermeasures for trolling and cloaking bullshit instead of playing the damn game and I do this because I can see what at a larger scale this is doing to the community.

I cannot understand how you "vets", who BTW are simply wannabe competitive players (if there was ever any sort of serious scene you would be destroyed in minutes), think that you are so critically important when your experience is so tiny compared to the full scope of the community. You all fail to even see what effects your actions and comments have on the community as a whole, instead for the most part hiding in your troll-haven forum bickering amongst yourselves and contributing to the cesspool.

The truth is that in every game that has a competitive scene, the competitive players are friendly, they support the modders and mappers that bring them new content, hell at major competitions for games like Warcraft and Starcraft, when they are not playing in the tournament, they are playing custom maps (read, mods) against each other and having fun. Meanwhile, you all have some sort of massive distaste for modders doing whatever you can to discredit them when they in fact probably have a better understand of the entire game than you ever will. I am addressing this to all the so called "vets" and their elitist bullshit attitudes. The truth is that even if I was able to play multiple games daily I would refuse to ever use that title for the simple fact of the tarnish you all have put on it. By definition, most veterans are often done with what they are veteran of, you aren't even using the word correctly by context, just as a sickening ego boost that apparently isn't enough so you have to talk down to anyone else who you do not consider of your ilk.

Case in point, you are sitting here, both of you, ZA and F1, bringing up things are have no relevance to this situation as they are about PAST EVENTS. Despite this, you are citing that those involved in the conversation, such as Zax, do not know what they are talking about simply because they do not fit YOUR TEMPLATE for what a CURRENT player is, regardless of the fact that being current is not even needed for a discussion of the past, not even going into how flawed your evaluation method is. It is sickening that now both of you have fallen into this egocentric trap.

Lets not forget, if this game was actually competitive, the whole lot of you would probably be bronze league. The most majorly played MP game out there for a long time was in fact a mod, DOTA. Maybe you should stop attacking those who clearly know more than you do. Hell, in this case, not only is the information past but the comments extend beyond the limits of Battlezone but you are too ignorant to see the value and instead demean the poster for going outside of this tiny microcosm.

Shame on the lot of you.

Analogy: You're honking at a car for not making a right turn on red which is legal in the state you are currently in, ignoring the fact that a sign has lit up that says "no turn on red" because of the opposing left arrow. Not only is the lead driver aware of the law that you can turn right on red but he is also aware of the other factors preventing him from being able to do so.
Translation: You're attacking someone who in fact does know what they are talking about and in fact has more knowledge then you do. Not only does he know what he is talking about but he has experience and knowledge outside of your scope of experience.