Israel vs. Iran

[Iron_Maiden]

This will make for an interesting debate topic:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu- ... hannel-10/

[Zenophas]

Israel, always causing mischief.

[MrTwosheds]

Its funny how some can be so open with their plans to commit (war)crimes. If they carry out their plans, everyone on the planet will become slightly more radioactive than they were before. Why is it ok for them to do this to us?

[Psychedelic Rhino]

Its funny how some can be so open with their plans to commit (war)crimes. If they carry out their plans, everyone on the planet will become slightly more radioactive than they were before. Why is it ok for them to do this to us?

When you have the president of Iran, who is clearly a puppet for his religious master, Ali Hosseini Khamenei, denounce and threaten Israel year after year, it's going to have an effect. I'm not defending Israel's approach to their solution to safety and sovereignty, just saying the threats have been made crystal clear.

[Red Spot]

Why is it ok for them to do this to us?

Not saying this goes for everybody, but look at the general public and how they 'do like they feel'. A guy I know had a fight in a bar 2 weeks ago, just cause he and the other guy had an argument, neither wanted to back down, and both felt like punching the other ... and both also felt it was perfectly OK concerning the circumstances.
Take things more locally within this community .. do I need to say more?

[MrTwosheds]

When you have the president of Iran, who is clearly a puppet for his religious master, Ali Hosseini Khamenei, denounce and threaten Israel year after year, it's going to have an effect. I'm not defending Israel's approach to their solution to safety and sovereignty, just saying the threats have been made crystal clear.

But have in fact remained only threats. Also the reasons for those threats are not entirely unreasonable.
Both are nations quasi theocracies, both abuse the human rights of those under their control.
It must also be said, that without US support Israel would not have been able to perpetuate this conflict for as long as it has done. It should also be noted that Iran has managed to maintain relatively good relations with most other nations in the region. The same cannot be said for Israel, as they have said many times, they are surrounded by enemies. This is entirely due to their unwillingness to treat in a reasonable manner, those of other faiths. Jewish Iranian's on the other hand, are permitted to practice their faith and live mostly unmolested in Iran. Iran does not have a problem with Jews, it has a problem with a "Jewish state", that is, one that overtly discriminates against Muslims and others. They object to the existence of a "state" that is defined by discrimination against its Muslim population. It is a very simple thing to fix, if there were the will to do it.
No amount of bombing or warfare can fix this issue, fear and violence are the central cause of the conflict. The Israeli/US approach to it is clearly designed to perpetuate rather than end the conflict. Destroying their nuclear industry will not end the threat, indeed it will give the Iranians and quite a number of other nations even more reason to escalate the regions arms race.
Indeed I can quite easily see that this could evolve into a new Russian/China/MiddleEast vs US cold war situation. The US should really start to think about the risk to its own interests from unconditional support of Israel's unreasonable political position and expansionist ideals.
Iran is well overdue a political change from within, it is really only this fabricated conflict that keeps the regime in a position of power over its own people. Basically the US is propping up both theocracies with its highly biased stance.

[Psychedelic Rhino]

But have in fact remained only threats. Also the reasons for those threats are not entirely unreasonable.

That is easy to say when you are not the one being threatened.

It should also be noted that Iran has managed to maintain relatively good relations with most other nations in the region. The same cannot be said for Israel, as they have said many times, they are surrounded by enemies.

Strawman, since Iran is 98% Muslin, as is every other country in the region being 99% or higher.

This is entirely due to their unwillingness to treat in a reasonable manner, those of other faiths. Jewish Iranian's on the other hand, are permitted to practice their faith and live mostly unmolested in Iran. Iran does not have a problem with Jews, it has a problem with a "Jewish state", that is, one that overtly discriminates against Muslims and others. They object to the existence of a "state" that is defined by discrimination against its Muslim population. It is a very simple thing to fix, if there were the will to do it.

You kind of shot that one down yourself with, "mostly unmolested". But yes, there is a token Jewish population in Iran, just as with Christians, Zoroastrians, etc. The Jews in Iran are an odd bunch, most of them believe they are some distant relative of Esther, the wife of the ancient Persian King Xerxes. But you were right to suggest they were not treated equally, as many are 'crypto-Jews'. And before you believe Iran is all warm and fuzzy towards Jews, and the other non-Muslim faiths, read up on Iran's legal system regarding "Diyya" or blood money.

[MrTwosheds]

I am not saying they are all warm and fuzzy, but as far as I know the systematic bulldozing of their homes and deaths at the hands of their own nations army are not a regular occurrence like they are for some who live in Israel. It is not Iran who is attempting to alter their own nations religious/genetic make up via violence, discrimination and displacement. Their aim is to stop Israel doing exactly that. They do not seek the military destruction of Israel, just the end of its discriminatory religious ideology.
Of course everyone knows that. This subject really just shows us all how corrupted democracy's and their politics can become by their vested interests, and how little human life (or non human) is really valued by those who seek power within them.

[Psychedelic Rhino]

It is not Iran who is attempting to alter their own nations religious/genetic make up via violence, discrimination and displacement.

There's your irony. . .it was done in 1979.

[MrTwosheds]

There's your irony. . .it was done in 1979.

When they overthrew their dictator? Much to the displeasure of the leaders of "the land of the free" and then had their revolution hijacked by religious extremists who hated America because it supported that murderous dictatorship? Obviously they should have stayed down on their knees rather than attempt to gain their liberty. America then sponsored dictator Sadam Hussien in a war against the Iranian theocracy, in which millions lost their lives. It is not entirely clear what has motivated America's outright hostility towards Iran, but it is entirely clear what motivates their hostility towards America, A long history of policies that can only be seen as utterly hostile to the Iranian people themselves, rather than any rational political position based on what Americans believe their own nation to be about...Most Iranians couldn't really give a damn about Israel one way or the other but history clearly shows them who their real enemy is. The question you should ask is why have American governments always had policies that are so hostile to the Iranian people, they are really no different from anyone else.
Israel is Hitlers legacy, but Iran's politics have "Made by the USA" clearly stamped on them. The current situation is just a continuation of a centuries worth of manipulative and malign interference by the US political system in a nation that has never offered any real threat to it at all. Iran really has no choice but to take the course that it has, America, however could simply try supporting the cause it claims to represent, freedom! for Israelis, Palestinians and Iranians, their own freedom.

Won't happen of course, got US voters to appease.

[Psychedelic Rhino]

The peoples of each nation have too much to do with their daily lives to hate and plot against another country. I agree it's those in leadership that cause the issues. The Iranian people were bamboozled by rhetoric in the mid and late 70's. And as you said, the religious nutcases grabbed the power and ran with it. It has never recovered.

A stark example is the saga of the film maker Jafar Panahi. To watch his film, "This is not a Film" is to see, in legal detail, a state dominated by religious fanatics.

Yes, we and Israel have our bias, corrupt players and shortcomings, but the clear violation of human rights is not written into the system. For god sake, a man who films about the downtrodden of children and women goes to prison for years, but here in the US, let complete flakes such as Jesse Ventura do late night talk shows and the speaking circuits. If that doesn't make the argument for the US, I have no idea what would.

[MrTwosheds]

but the clear violation of human rights is not written into the system.

In Israel it does appear to be that exactly. It is this fundamental fact that is the entire cause of their conflict. Could you imagine one of the smaller US states deciding it was whites only, or blacks only, and that everyone else had to leave? to make way for all the openly invited immigrants of that type from all over the world. An attempt to steal the land and property of an entire state full of people, would Americans meekly pack up and go? No they would not, they would stay and fight for their land.

[Nielk1]

I think the split missed the topic that started this, the news article.

[Red Devil]

related:

http://news.yahoo.com/iran-police-watch ... nance.html

http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-authorizes ... 20854.html

[Psychedelic Rhino]

The best thing about the Syrian mess is I discovered THIS underground delicious morsel.