BZ's Mag Arena

[General BlackDragon]

Okay, I'd like to make 2 points:

1: I apologize for the way I summarized my opinion of BZE's hull/ammo interface. I was attempting to summarize in a humorous way why I didn't like it.

2: BDOG tanks missing was not a false statement. To me, removing the models of the tanks is the same as removing the tanks. Without the BDOG skin, a grizzly is just a grizzly. So, when you removed the duplicate VDFs, making the BDOG odfs look like normal NSDF units, to me that is the same as removing them. It just becomes a Grizzly with a different weapon loudout. Sure, the ODFs are still there, just the same as they were before, but they arn't BDOG units anymore I believe at the time I posted on spock's forum about it, I was rather heartfelt, as I love the bdogs. I also saw no practical reason for their removal, they don't take up much space.

[Psychedelic Rhino]

The last two pages of this thread are really reminiscent of the old days of flock-speak. . .

"I can hack buttzone entranced anytime I want with notepad, so don't make me angry."

[Apollo]

It seems that if you don't 100% love BzE and agree 100% with them, you are an evil Spockling bent on destroying the BZ1-isphere.

I think it's very disappointing to see behavior like this from a programmer, you are starting to make me think you are a troll.

[Ded10c]

It doesn't matter the settings in the ODF if the model displays something different.

Assuming what GBD has written up there is entirely correct (and I see no reason for it to not be), Apollo, I want you to apply exactly the same logic here. If you take a Grizzly ODF and change the model to that of the Czar, is the resulting tank a Czar or a Grizzly?

[Apollo]

Okay, I'd like to make 2 points:
2: BDOG tanks missing was not a false statement. To me, removing the models of the tanks is the same as removing the tanks. Without the BDOG skin, a grizzly is just a grizzly. So, when you removed the duplicate VDFs, making the BDOG odfs look like normal NSDF units, to me that is the same as removing them. It just becomes a Grizzly with a different weapon loudout. Sure, the ODFs are still there, just the same as they were before, but they arn't BDOG units anymore I believe at the time I posted on spock's forum about it, I was rather heartfelt, as I love the bdogs. I also saw no practical reason for their removal, they don't take up much space.

The odf IS the tank, not having the skins on for a development version has no effect on game play.
Yes the duplacate model files take up a lot of space that was needed. The texture override code work was in the list of things to do, we all have priorities.

Tell me if any of you like your work misrepresented and in a place where you can't go to refute it and i'll tell you you're a liar.

[Apollo]

It doesn't matter the settings in the ODF if the model displays something different.

Assuming what GBD has written up there is entirely correct (and I see no reason for it to not be), Apollo, I want you to apply exactly the same logic here. If you take a Grizzly ODF and change the model to that of the Czar, is the resulting tank a Czar or a Grizzly?

You're comparing apples and oranges, the grizzly and the Black Dog grizzly are the same model, the difference is the texture which was later added to the odf as 3 new labels to call the lod texture. The game has way too many duplacate files.

[General BlackDragon]

What space needed? AFAIK there is no limit to the size of a zfs or how much can be in addon folder. I never understood why you used that as your reason for removing them.

[Psychedelic Rhino]

Okay, I'd like to make 2 points:

1: I apologize for the way I summarized my opinion of BZE's hull/ammo interface. I was attempting to summarize in a humorous way why I didn't like it.

Accepted.

And just for the record, so you don't continue to believe I am just a mindless fanboy of BZE, I think Apollo can tell you I have my own, very vocal issues, with BZE myself.

It's just that to me, it became clear years ago, a mod was needed to save the game from the mindless hacking abuse the game suffered, that drove away countless players. BZE could have, should have, been BZ's savior, but several individuals chose to sustain a known broken version for obvious selfish reasons.

[Nielk1]

It seems that if you don't 100% love BzE and agree 100% with them, you are an evil Spockling bent on destroying the BZ1-isphere.

I think it's very disappointing to see behavior like this from a programmer, you are starting to make me think you are a troll.

And yet you are the one actively attacking people for having opinions.

What space needed? AFAIK there is no limit to the size of a zfs or how much can be in addon folder. I never understood why you used that as your reason for removing them.

Why apologize to people who not only attacked you but the same attacked others that made less terse and far more dry statements?

[General BlackDragon]

I always assumed it was one, controlling, abusive, dictator, that forced his opinion on others and banished all that didn't bow down to his every will.


I apologized because the way I first presented my opinion, "clown went to town on it" was somewhat, insulting. Though it was supposed to be humorous, my sense of humor sometimes comes off as insulting, or ..off, in some ways..

[Ded10c]

I was making the comparison a little more extreme so GBD's problem with it is clear. You take off the Black Dog skin, it's not a Black Dog tank any more; it's an NSDF Regulars tank with different attributes. Gameplay wise, that may indeed make a difference to some players in terms of threat assessment.

The (minor) problem is that you removed the near-duplicate model (not entirely a duplicate because the texture was different) before you had the alternate measure in place. This is where GBD's comment about "the right/wrong way to mod" comes in. It would have been better practice to implement your alternate measure before removing the old one, rather than do it the other way around and release a version in between.


This, by the way, is all constructive criticism. It's not "BZE is rubbish", it's "I don't like BZE much and this is why". We're suggesting these things to help you. What I see rereading page 8 is GBD listing things he didn't like about BZE, then you two leaping on him. As soon as I support his argument (with an entirely valid fact, I "don't know what I'm talking about" and need to "check my facts". That's not a good way to respond to people trying to help you.

Thanks to Hitch at least for being more sensible.

[General BlackDragon]

Another note, my comments about "the right/wrong way to mod" were not really aimed at BZE specifically, but more of a general tip for the masses. It was also not intended to be an insult. It's just something I see in every modding community. As modders gain experience, they refine and improve their work.

it was referring to things like X-Mod, SRV, SF Mod, and my FSB mod, in the way that they add heaps of units/weapons so much that it detracts from the overall feel of the mod. BZE only has this on certain DM maps.

[Apollo]

Nielk1, you are the only one claiming an attack, this is Battlezone 1 Discussion.
GBD even sees his comment as insulting.
"the right/wrong way to mod" That is an opinion, refering to something as the work of a clown is and insult and or an attack but i don't care about that. (just to clarify)

Ahadley, the skin was a difference that made no difference, none of the players complained and as i said, we all have priorities, the texture override code wasn't high enough on the list for that deveolpment version.

[Ded10c]

Actually Apollo, I happen to agree. You've been unnecessarily hostile for damn near five pages.

[General BlackDragon]

It's probably a little of all our faults.

Lets all just get along